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Old 07-02-2014, 22:28   #1
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Flying a Staysail

My 30 C&C came with a staysail but not the halyard or forestay to hoist it. Having never flown one before, I'm not sure if I want to spend the money to be able to fly it. My understanding is that it's generally flown with the spinnaker on a broad reach. I don't really plan on doing a lot of racing on this boat but you never know. If I can get a crew together, maybe I can make a 40 year old boat competitive again.

The bigger question is does anyone use a staysail while cruising? And if so, when? I have three other jibs I can hoist so it's not like I really need a staysail.
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Old 07-02-2014, 22:58   #2
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Re: Flying a staysail

Using the staysail for me, is beneficial when beating into the wind. I have a genoa staysail and have found to be handy as well when the winds get up over 25 knots. Rolling in the furler headsail and just going with the main and staysail brings the boat more under control and easier to balance. It's just nice I find to have the option. Having a stay made from Dyneema is a cheaper way to go and less cumbersome to remove.
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Old 07-02-2014, 23:37   #3
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Re: Flying a staysail

Spinnaker stay sail is not the same as a normal stay sail as it can be hoisted on its own wire luff. The loads are way less than on a regular staysail. A regular stay sail will probably need running back stays as well so much more complex and expensive than what you have on your C&C. Great boat by the way.
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Old 08-02-2014, 09:37   #4
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Re: Flying a staysail

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Spinnaker stay sail is not the same as a normal stay sail as it can be hoisted on its own wire luff. The loads are way less than on a regular staysail. A regular stay sail will probably need running back stays as well so much more complex and expensive than what you have on your C&C. Great boat by the way.
Thanks. Yes, my staysail has a wire luff. Since the staysail isn't as tall as a jib, do I need a staysail halyard or can I use my jib halyard?
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:20   #5
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Staysail is generally flown from an inner forestay. It's more or less useless when beating or running, bit can add so e drive when reaching, especially if you are cutter rigged and have a high clewed Yankee jib like I do. The other fantastic use of a staysail is as a storm jib. Flown from an inner forestay, the center of effort is lower and further aft.

You do need running backstays to counteract the forces imparted to the inner forestay.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:33   #6
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Re: Flying a staysail

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Staysail is generally flown from an inner forestay. It's more or less useless when beating or running, bit can add so e drive when reaching, especially if you are cutter rigged and have a high clewed Yankee jib like I do. The other fantastic use of a staysail is as a storm jib. Flown from an inner forestay, the center of effort is lower and further aft.

You do need running backstays to counteract the forces imparted to the inner forestay.
I cannot agree with several of the statements above. Based on 20 years sailing our cutter:

- our three staysails are designed specifically for beating and that is all they are ever used for. Hard on the wind in 25 knots apparent the overlapping staysail provides 2 degree better CMG, 5 degrees less rudder angle, and 3 degrees less leeway than with a 90% RF genoa. The 120% genoa was custom made by North Sails to provide good windward. performance in 20 - 25 knots apparent when furled to 90%. The genoa is not a yankee in my opinion - but the clew is five feet off the deck when sheeted hard.

- We never use any of our staysails for reaching...and we've done a lot of reaching in 15 - 30 knots apparent in the ocean.

- our rig was designed to be sailed with no running backstays to support the inner forestay which is 8 feet aft of the forestay tack on a boat with a 17' J and 32' waterline.

I do agree the storm jib on the inner forestay is a brilliant sail in more than 45 knots

To the OP:
Is it possible the inner forestay has been removed or is tied to the mast where you have not noticed it? When we secure our inner forestay at the mast it is almost impossible to tell the boat is a cutter. The only sign is a small stainless tang where the bottom of the hyfield lever attaches.

Our C&C 40 had a removeable inner forestay.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:40   #7
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Re: Flying a staysail

You can use a jib halyard to fly the spinnaker stay sail.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:43   #8
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Re: Flying a staysail

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You can use a jib halyard to fly the spinnaker stay sail.
Thanks! So no need to run a second halyard.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:47   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

I cannot agree with several of the statements above. Based on 20 years sailing our cutter:

- our three staysails are designed specifically for beating and that is all they are ever used for. Hard on the wind in 25 knots apparent the overlapping staysail provides 2 degree better CMG, 5 degrees less rudder angle, and 3 degrees less leeway than with a 90% RF genoa.
.
A 90% headsail is not a genoa at all, but more like a blade jib. Something I have often wished for. How that interacts with a staysail, I have no idea. But a normal overlapping headsail does not like sharing the stage with a staysail when beating, and will end up producing more drag than lift. Cutter sailor here, but as everyone knows - sloops rule when hard on the wind.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:53   #10
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Re: Flying a staysail

The spinnaker stay sail tends to add a little extra power when reaching from the beam especially and less as you fall off further. Get rid of it well before the mark so you can concentrate on getting a good douse on the chute.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:55   #11
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Re: Flying a staysail

For the other fellows on this thread, a spinnaker stay sail is not like an ordinary stay sail and is not meant for any windward work, its a racing sail never used for cruising.
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Old 08-02-2014, 13:41   #12
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Re: Flying a staysail

Thanks Robert. Exactly the answers I was looking for.
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Old 08-02-2014, 13:59   #13
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Re: Flying a staysail

I forgot to mention we never sail with staysail and any additional sail forward of the mast. We have found that combination to be counter productive. When the staysail is up - it is the only sail forward of the mast.

Flying a staysail set on an inner forestay and hoisted on the genoa halyard would not result in optimum luff tension on the staysail. The genoa halyard would not be pulling parallel to the inner forestay. It would tend to pull the head of the staysail forward on the inner forestay.

Probably a minor point but when we don't hoist the staysail until the conditions are less than gentle and pleasant and therefore strive for a well set and efficient sail.
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Old 08-02-2014, 14:55   #14
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Re: Flying a staysail

I have a cutter rigged sloop and find the jib and staysail work well together and help me point higher when on the wind. I had North Sails make the pair to match up. Their design reduced my jib size down from 130% to 122% in order to make the combination work. I don't miss the larger jib, however I do keep it in my inventory. I also will fly the spinnaker when off the wind without either jib or stay flying. I sense more power, not necessarily speed, when flying the pair especially in seas 3 feet and up. It does require running backs on the windward side to counteract pumping in the mast.
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Old 08-02-2014, 15:12   #15
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I also have a sloop with a staysail. On my boat the top of it is even with the spreaders. this allows me to not need running backs days. But it also means the staysail is very small. I have a 130 percent roller furler genny so it's nice to have a storm jib ready to go. The staysail is also club footed so if I'm doing a bunch of short tacks like going up a river my boat self tends this is a huge benefit if you sail in places that are tight.
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