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Old 11-02-2014, 09:19   #46
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Re: Flying a Staysail

Now that I think about it, I think the fairlead was for the downhaul line, run back to the cabin.
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Old 11-02-2014, 09:22   #47
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Re: Flying a Staysail

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Now that I think about it, I think the fairlead was for the downhaul line, run back to the cabin.
I agree, and the pad eye is for a spinnaker down haul, not a baby stay
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Old 11-02-2014, 09:24   #48
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Re: Flying a Staysail

My guess is the pad eye is for the spinnaker pole down haul.
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Old 11-02-2014, 10:12   #49
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Re: Flying a Staysail

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There is a lot of advice here and it is very confusing at this point and I'm certain the OP is scratching his head to determine whether to use a staysail or not.

There are so many variables in rigs and they are set up to the designer's purpose on any given boat. To say lowers are not necessary will not apply to every boat design. So I suggest the OP find out if he has a sloop, cutter rigged sloop etc. and start there. I have a high aspect ratio cutter rigged sloop for instance. It has two shrouds in line with the mast port and starboard. One goes to the top of the mast, and the second goes to the upper spreader attachment point on the mast. I have a forward lower and an aft lowers that attach to the mast at the lower spreaders. All of these hold the mast in column. The baby stay as I call it, others will call it the forestay, or staysail stay, is attached to the mast at the upper spreader and runs to the foredeck parallel to the jib stay. I have running backstays lead from the upper spreaders to a turning block attached to a pad eye in the stern of the boat deck. These are controlled by the spinnaker winches. The weather side running back is always tensioned when flying the stay sail. Even with my forward and aft lowers, the mast pumps without the running backstays. Now to top all of that off, I have a hydraulic backstay used to improve jib stay tension. All of this was designed and built by Ted Hood. The operative words in my rig are high aspect ratio which Mr. Hood explained to me is why it is considered a performance cruiser.

I went thru all that so that the forum needs to be more specific about the rig design they are comparing to when saying you don't need a baby stay, only a wire rope luff sail, or you don't need running back stays, or just use your spinnaker halyard fore a baby stay. In optimal conditions, all that might work fine until less than optimal conditions come into play. A broken mast at sea is a dangerous thing to deal with when the wind and seas are acting up.

If the C & C 30 is truly a cutter rig sloop, then I would use the staysail when close reaching and beating to the wind. You will get more power and be able to carry less or reefed headsail in higher wind velocities. You can roll up the headsail and use the staysail in stormy conditions with a reefed main as I have done often. And finally, you are more likely to be hove to better with the staysail and reefed main.

I didn't discuss fractional rigs because if you tried a staysail on that design, it would be a real homemade system. I highly recommend working with the design intended by the manufacturer and get a good sail loft to help with the combinations you will need.
I think what you a calling a babystay on your boat is very uncommon usage. What is common is to say forestay when it would be more descriptive to say headstay for the the one that goes to the top of the mast.

Nautical Terms

Baby Stay - Secondary forestay supporting the leading edge of the mast and used to flatten the mainsail in building winds.

Forestay - A support wire running from the upper part of the mast to the bow of the boat designed to pull the mast forward. A forestay that attaches slightly below the top of the mast can be used to help control the bend of the mast. The most forward stay on the boat is also called the headstay.

Forestaysail - A sail attached to the forestay as opposed to a jib which is attached to the headstay.
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Old 11-02-2014, 10:42   #50
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I think what you a calling a babystay on your boat is very uncommon usage. What is common is to say forestay when it would be more descriptive to say headstay for the the one that goes to the top of the mast.

Nautical Terms

Baby Stay - Secondary forestay supporting the leading edge of the mast and used to flatten the mainsail in building winds.

Forestay - A support wire running from the upper part of the mast to the bow of the boat designed to pull the mast forward. A forestay that attaches slightly below the top of the mast can be used to help control the bend of the mast. The most forward stay on the boat is also called the headstay.

Forestaysail - A sail attached to the forestay as opposed to a jib which is attached to the headstay.
Just curious where you got your nautical terms from. There are so many different rigs that having a generic name for the different stays gets a little complicated. The most common use for the term forestaysail is on a staysail schooner where you have the mainstaysail and a forestaysail. Pronounced sil.
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Old 11-02-2014, 15:54   #51
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Re: Flying a Staysail

Those definitions are old and would have been written when most boats had bowsprits. The headstay is the one on the end of the sprit while the forestay is close to the stemhead..
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Old 17-02-2014, 19:36   #52
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Re: Flying a Staysail

[QUOTE=cal40john;1465568]I think what you a calling a babystay on your boat is very uncommon usage. What is common is to say forestay when it would be more descriptive to say headstay for the the one that goes to the top of the mast.

I won't argue that, so I'll call it an inner forestay. I don't find the term in any searches, we just always called it baby stay to avoid confusion with the fore stay, jib stay or whatever when racing. I don't even know when I picked up the term. Thing is though, I disconnect it and lash it to the pad eye on the deck so it is out of the way when flying the spinnaker. So to use it by your definition, I need to put it in place to flatten the main in heavy air. I might try that sometime.

It does show that there is a lot of rigs and many shared and unique terms in sailing making it difficult to sort out in this forum. Just saying....
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Old 17-02-2014, 20:00   #53
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Re: Flying a Staysail

Inner forestay and babystay are two different things. A babystay goes roughly 1/3 up the mast and cannot fly a staysail. An inner forestay goes roughly 2/3 up the mast and can fly a staysail. The babystay will be mounted on the deck 3-4 feet forward of the mast while the inner forestay will be mounted around 3-6 feet aft of the bow.
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Old 17-02-2014, 21:05   #54
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Re: Flying a Staysail

One thing that has not been revealed: is the "staysail" made of fairly heavy Dacron, or very light Dacron or spinnaker cloth? If the former, it is what most cruisers call a staysail as in a cutter rig. If the latter, it is a "tallboy" or "spinnaker staysail" and meant to use under a symmetrical spinnaker.

Considering that it has a built in wire luff, I suspect the latter is what you have, Jim.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 18-02-2014, 08:26   #55
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Re: Flying a Staysail

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
One thing that has not been revealed: is the "staysail" made of fairly heavy Dacron, or very light Dacron or spinnaker cloth? If the former, it is what most cruisers call a staysail as in a cutter rig. If the latter, it is a "tallboy" or "spinnaker staysail" and meant to use under a symmetrical spinnaker.

Considering that it has a built in wire luff, I suspect the latter is what you have, Jim.

Cheers,

Jim
Jim,

The sail is pretty light Dacron so I suspect you are correct.

Jim
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Old 18-02-2014, 09:28   #56
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Re: Flying a Staysail

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Inner forestay and babystay are two different things. A babystay goes roughly 1/3 up the mast and cannot fly a staysail. An inner forestay goes roughly 2/3 up the mast and can fly a staysail. The babystay will be mounted on the deck 3-4 feet forward of the mast while the inner forestay will be mounted around 3-6 feet aft of the bow.
Like I said, I'll start calling mine an inner forestay, and since I don't have a bowsprit, I call the jibstay the forestay. Thanks
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Old 18-02-2014, 09:31   #57
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Re: Flying a Staysail

I lost my Royces Handbook, guess I better get a new one
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