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Old 09-03-2016, 13:55   #16
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

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Carena 40 is a lovely looking boat!

Would have thought the wood (laid teak?) deck and whatever insulation is under the deck would have more influence on temperature below than darkness of interior?
Thanks for the compliment unclemack. We love her. The temperature is likely a combination of both. In the winter she warms up quite well and stays warm due to the insulation and the deck. In the summer I believe that the reduction in sunlight helps prevent her from getting too hot along with the insulation and deck.
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Old 09-03-2016, 14:08   #17
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

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Thank you for this input hamburking, make my day and barnakiel, Sounds like you've all gathered real experience on the flush deck design.

I'm looking at a swan 40. A very well maintained '72. #29.

The info here. On the poor maneuvering under motor during high seas has me concerned. Hard to sail at night during a storm...
Not to over-think this one, Deep Blue. On the open ocean at night, she will sail herself quite well, with a wind vane steering. Yes, the motion may be so vigorous as to preclude sleep, but the boat will be able to rise to seas as high as her spreaders, just fine, and although she may luff in the troughs, a little, she'll resume her heel angle as she lifts. Using wind vane steering, you will be checking your heading frequently, and altering it as the wind direction changes, but you will not find it hard to sail at night in a squall. If you have plenty of sea room, you'll even let it do its circle as she follows the wind around. It beats "pole down, gybe, pole up, pole down, all the way through the tacking to get back to your original course" scenario, which is exhausting to do, shorthanded. I wish I had taken a picture of the GPS track that night, it was a perfect loop-the-loop. ; - )

The way things develop, you'll have had some practice with the boat in nice weather, and one day, realize you're ready to try more vigorous conditions, and go out to practice when you still have warm showers to come home to. Learning the boat takes a while to come to trust it completely, but a good old boat like that is basically trustworthy.

Ann

on edit: Sorry, I didn't address the handling under motor issue. We have had to use both engine plus storm jib to get out of an anchorage which had become untenable after a cyclone passed over our location. So, you may find that your boat is unable to make way to windward in a storm, without some help from a sail.

Otherwise, I would think you would be down to survival conditions before you even thought of using the engine to maneuver in the 55 and up wind, dark, rain, and huge seas. You might be hove to, but unless you're planning to go some really nasty places or sail in storm force winds routinely, you are unlikely to encounter such conditions. Most cruising sailors tend to avoid them, but if you are going to seek them out, then, yes, it is a concern, but you'll have to experiment and discover what works for that boat at the time. There are lots of books about storm management, now, and I suspect, even U-tube presentations. Don't dwell on it, just learn beforehand so that you have some plans, and do your first few expeditions where you know you can run to safety. Adlard Coles, Pardeys, both, among many others, have addressed storm survival.
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Old 09-03-2016, 14:41   #18
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

I completely agree with taking what the storm gives you out in open ocean. After about 19 hours against some of the best the Bering Sea had to offer, I was convinced speed was my friend. I'm looking at old Swans for this very reason. Tough, reliable, into the wind take charge type boats.

We're you solo Ann, during that storm above? Is my dream of freedom obtainable in the plan I have? Big smiles.
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Old 09-03-2016, 15:40   #19
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

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I'm looking at a swan 40. A very well maintained '72. #29.
Do you have a link so we can have a look?
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Old 09-03-2016, 16:23   #20
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

Not many drawbacks. Our Gilana is a flush-deck Van de Stadt 50' Ketch.
The only thing that I would say, is that if you are used to boats with a deckhouse, then a dodger, then a bimini, and you are used to walking straight up into the cockpit, you might be in for a surprise.
At anchor its a crawl, and people who visit us seem to think that everything is low, until you are inside. We have 8' headroom in some areas, and 6 in the rest, and we can stand in the cockpit under the awning, but we never do. She was designed for blue water stuff, so sitting is the preferred position in the cockpit, its safer.

Because of the flush deck, our boom is only 4' off the deck, and because of that, the dodger is lower. We have the headroom because we draw 8'6" but that is still not a problem (even in the Bahamas) The upside is that our center of effort is very low, and we get more drive on the main, because we heel less. In fact our maximum heel angle is 12deg. More than that we reduce sail and go faster. Everything is a compromise, our bunks are below waterline, nice comfortable swinging motion instead of balancing on top of the ball. On the other hand, our galley sing is below waterline and needs a pump.....

We would not look at a boat with a condo on deck, especially in a storm...it all just washes over us.
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Old 09-03-2016, 16:47   #21
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

The washing over part does sound appealing. I like how the cockpit is separated from the entry below. I've wanted a center cockpit since the second I saw one. The Gilana sounds nice. Is she fast?
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Old 09-03-2016, 18:50   #22
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

It is kinda weird standing in the fwd cabin, looking through the hatch, up at the clouds through a few inches of green water, with not a drip coming inside.

We sail conservatively, highest speed ever was 14.2 kts off Santa Marta colombia, I would not want to do it again.

Normal planning speed is 6.7 kts but you can check our daily runs on our Atlantic crossings recorded on our web page...

She could be a LOT faster with a new suit of sails...
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Old 09-03-2016, 18:56   #23
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

I bet the extra cabin space really weighs them down. Must be amazing to see the water coming over like that. What's your website called?
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Old 09-03-2016, 19:20   #24
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

I like the feel of flush decks when on deck for sure, but Dark and cavish below with little air.
I think one has to be careful about preconceived notions of quality based on advertising also. Swans are apparently good boats, when you think about it, what do you get for so much more money? The hatches, portlites, engines, SS rigging, pumps, heads etc etc etc are all the same.
Is the Swan rudder shaft monel so it wont break off?
Are the tanks titanium so they wont corrode?
Is the deck core compartmentalized so a leak cant migrate? Is it Honeycomb instead of balsa or foam?
Are the keel bolts bronze or monel?
I helped clean out a 42 that had just made a trip from Hawaii to the PNW. I remember thinking at the time how it didn't seem any different than most production boats, and wondered why it was so totally soaking wet inside. Apparently cost has nothing to do with how well it stays dry when bashing windward for weeks on end.


I'm not dissing Swans... just wondering how much more you really get....
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Old 09-03-2016, 20:02   #25
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

Heavy duty, fat wine glass, low in the water with a taller mast. Well insulated, quiet under motor. Sexy lines. Lots of sail. And they win races.

What's your favorite cheechoka?
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Old 09-03-2016, 20:40   #26
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

Its hidden in the signature
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Old 09-03-2016, 21:17   #27
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

I'm new here, where are the signatures?
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Old 09-03-2016, 22:25   #28
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

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I'm new here, where are the signatures?
The SIG line is the bit at t bottom of most peoples post
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Old 10-03-2016, 07:54   #29
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

We sailed our flush deck Colombia 43 for 9 years. Plenty of light from the overhead hatches. There is actually more room in a flush deck design than a trunk cabin since full headroom goes deck edge to deck edge . Actually found it a bit easier to use safety line to harness since the webbing could almost run down the centerof the boat, from "hook on" at the companionway almost straight to the bow and almost everything in beween was reachable . Did have to install "Granny Bars" around the mast to keep myself in place when working at the mast. Otherwise a great live aboard with tons of room and 6'4" headroom. In a 43 footer, we could have 6 sleeping, 6 working the deck and 6 cooking and eating without converting or crowding anyone. How efficient is that? I like flush decks.
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:12   #30
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Re: Flush Deck down sides?

18 people on a 43 sounds like a party, but I see your point. I like your angle with the clutter free deck while using the life line. I'd want granny bars at the mast and probably barred railing all the way around.

Thank you for sharing ebsail.
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