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Old 19-02-2013, 18:22   #61
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Originally Posted by hellosailor
As I've said elsewhere when this same topic keeps coming up, Florida's rule about boat registration is actually about the same rule that perhaps EVERY state has for ALL MOTOR VEHICLES. It is not just a boat rule, it is a motor vehicle rule for boats with engines.

Take your car to a different state for 90 days, and you may be required to re-register the car there and explain that to your insurer as well.

Florida is bizarrely generous in that they don't require boats to change from their original state registration, they provide for a secondary FL registration, so you pay the extra fee, stick an extra paper in your wallet, and don't have to change back again $$ when you leave.

As to the larger question "flordia is not very boat friendly and they the welcome mat is never out...Why is that "

Well, I suspect that's because these damned Yankees and Northern Middle Class Liberals and Canadians and MidWesterners, all these tourists and sojourners, have been ruining Florida for the locals.

The locals are mainly broke, living in cheap housing with no public transportation and low tazex, and kept that way by the Rich, who own all that waterfront property which is so heavily air conditioned now. Lots of poor labor helps keep the rich living in style. There's no middle class to disrupt things. The Rich like it, they tend to run things. The poor? No one asks them, they're poor.

And then along come the damned Yankees, expecting paved streets, libraries, schools, all these things that cost money, damnit. Now they start asking for higher taxes, asking for taxes, imagine that! and they drive up the rents by buying up all the swamp, ergh, condo lots. Which is great for builders but then, the po' folks can't compete with the new higher rates, and that means the rich folks got to pay more money or, damn, hire illegals instead...

You see? Having sojourners, tourists, masses of snowbirds, it screws up the entire economy and messes with the way of life enjoyed by the ruling class. Hell, they even voted to spend money on highway guardrails (40 years after America did) and the number of drownings on the turnpike went down. But that costs money, look at where taxes have gone!

Florida is an odd state. It comes frm Spain, not England. And until the advent of air conditioning, it was swamp and wasteland to a large degree. So, there's a lot of convention and tradition that's just DIFFERENT down there.

Tourists? Oh sure, that's nice, but what's the sense in putting up with that clutter unless you can also skin and eat a few?

It really does make sense, from their point of view.
Seems like we need to shoot all the Yankees and bring back slavery so you can have Florida back the way it was. Or, did you want to go back to ponce de Leon and wipe out the natives?
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Old 19-02-2013, 20:24   #62
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Re: Fla

I've been a Floridian for over sixty years. Florida has no conflict with visitors,- Florida is made of visitors, tourists, immigrates, Canadians, Cubans.............. we've met the enemy and he is us! If you are hassled by some law enforcement agent in Florida, chances are he's reitired from Wisconsin! Florida is much like the pool of immigrants from Ellis Island,- we are everybody!..... We are you!
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Old 19-02-2013, 20:43   #63
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Re: Fla

In an effort to change the tone of this thread, I would just like to conclude that Florida is a great place to visit! Just be aware there are a few odd wrinkles in the regulations to be aware of, but they are not big problems. In fact, I think my first post in this thread still sums up my feelings towards FL:

Quote:
Remember, you mostly only hear about the bad experiences from the complainers! Yes, Florida does have some odd rules and regulations, and it does also have more than the usual number of law enforcement boats on the water all looking for something to do. But, as long as you have all your ducks in a row, stickers in place, Y-valves in the correct position, etc. you won't have any problems with authorities. A few places down there are expensive, but overall cruising can be as cheap as you can find in the USA. Marathon now charges as much for using the dinghy dock as they do for a rental mooring, so avoid there unless you want to hang on a mooring ball--than it isn't a bad deal at all. There are still tons of great places to anchor and most harbors have somewhere you can access shore from the dinghy for free. You will meet cruisers from all over the USA and the world, and most of them are very friendly. I have been to every state by boat from Maine to Florida and they all have their pluses and minuses. Florida has both, just like the others.
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Old 19-02-2013, 21:48   #64
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Re: Fla

"so you can have Florida back the way it was"
Right church, wrong pew.

I want Florida back the way it was, so the rich can have their playground back, the poor can have their cheap rents again, and the Seminoles can skin 'em both at the casinos.

But personally? I want it for THEM and I want no part of it. The weather sux 9 months of the year (on the gold coast). The roads flood regularly because the town fathers want it that way and actually prohibit raising the street level. (Unlike Chicago and Seattle and Chattanooga, where they raised the streets up ten feet to stop that, no federal aid asked or needed, and done over 100 years ago).

I believe in seasons, and trees that don't have to be held up with 2x4s while they try to gnaw their roots into coral soil. Oh, and drainage sumps quaintly sold as "lakes" and "pounds".

No, I'm a Yankee. We call a drain a drain, and then we cover it over so folks don't have to walk all the way around it and can't drive into it. Florida just ain't my way of life, and no matter how long I may sojourn there, it never will be.

As the new Roman Catholic ArchBishop for Miami so cleverly said at his inauguration two years ago, "I am proud to be assigned so close the the continental United States!" and the entire crowd, cubano and anglo alike, howled in laughter.

It is their island, from their very different legacy, and they're entitled to run it their way. Well, except when their way conflicts with the bigger American Federal Way. If they want the tax money, if they want the highway funds, they have to buy in to the whole program--or not.
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Old 20-02-2013, 08:26   #65
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Re: Fla

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Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
No, actually, that's a pretty lousy analogy. A REAL analogy would be a state requiring anyone who brings their vehicle and stays for more than three months, having to register the car and get it inspected in that state.

OH WAIT!!! Every state already does that! Gee, what a surprise.

This has nothing to do with "full faith and credit." It simply has to do with states (virtually ALL states, not just Florida) saying that if you come and stay for months at a time, then you are using the common elements of the state enough that you need to pay a little bit for them.

Again, twist it however you want, but this is absolutely and positively NOT any sort of violation of any federal law, or of the Constitution, or of anything else.
You're mixing two different issues. My analogy is a good one for the issue I am talking about. Maybe, not so good for the one you are talking about. Why don't we clarify which issue we are debating.

Are talking about the 90 day rule to re-register as a Florida vessel, any vessel that stays over 90 days in Florida, regardless of the vessel's domicile state registration rules, or the instant rule to register as a Florida vessel any federally documented vessel from a state that does not require registration for a federally document vessel domiciled there, the second it enters Florida? Those are two very different topics, and two very different issues.

I don't think the 90 day rule is onerous to free transit, or Full Faith and Criedit, as it is consistent with what other states do and operates on a reasonable assumption (namely, that a vessel staying in Florida for an extended time, to the point it could be considered to be domiciled and not merely traveling through Florida), should comply with Florida registration requriements). I do think the rule requiring instant registration of any vessel federally documented as being domiciled in a state that does not require registration, who is passing through Florida as a traveler, is an unconstitutional burden, that hinders travel between the states, as well as being a violation of Full Faith and Credit.

So, .........talk to me, do you acknowledge that these are two different issues? If so, what are we talking about here? If not, why are they the same issue?
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Old 20-02-2013, 08:53   #66
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Re: Fla

Hellosailor, I don't think you've ever been to the Florida I live in.
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Old 20-02-2013, 09:27   #67
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Re: Fla

HopCar, that could well be. Unfortunately I've spent time on the Gold Coast, and I'll be the first to say that's not the best of Florida.

"having to register the car and get it inspected in that state....
OH WAIT!!! Every state already does that! "
I guess Group9 has never been there either. Florida being one of the states that has no vehicle inspections at all--ever--and assumes that brake lights, tire tread, mufflers, are all bothersome federal plagues not safety issues.

And as I recall, Florida charges about $500 a shot to title cars, whether you buy them new or transfer them into the state from elsewhere. They get their pound of silver, just like everyone else.
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Old 20-02-2013, 10:11   #68
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Re: Fla

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
HopCar, that could well be. Unfortunately I've spent time on the Gold Coast, and I'll be the first to say that's not the best of Florida.

"having to register the car and get it inspected in that state....
OH WAIT!!! Every state already does that! "
I guess Group9 has never been there either. Florida being one of the states that has no vehicle inspections at all--ever--and assumes that brake lights, tire tread, mufflers, are all bothersome federal plagues not safety issues.

And as I recall, Florida charges about $500 a shot to title cars, whether you buy them new or transfer them into the state from elsewhere. They get their pound of silver, just like everyone else.
Not having regular vehicles inspections is not a negative. Many states have dropped such costly/useless ventures. There certainly are laws to cover such issues.

Florida has no state income tax, 6% sales tax (counties can add 1%), and property taxes where I live are ~1%. Florida collects .7% tax on home mortgages at closing. So paying ~$400 to title a new car isn't a burden.

There are seasons in Florida, but only 2 - snowbirds and no snowbirds!

No snow shovels required!!!

No need to put the boat on the hard for the winter!!!

8000+ miles of tidal shoreline, 1300+ miles of general shoreline to explore!!

Shorts, tee shirts, and flip-flops 11 1/2 months a year!!!

If the above are your priorities, all the rest is just background noise!
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Old 20-02-2013, 10:15   #69
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pirate Re: Fla

I'm relying on the pythons to cut down on tourism too.
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Old 20-02-2013, 10:22   #70
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Re: Fla

HopCar....from one Floridian to another....sounds kinda familiar.....but we are always glad to have them come down. It's been a "tough winter", now where did I put my flip flops?

enjoy the winds for they are free
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Old 20-02-2013, 10:25   #71
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Re: Fla

"Not having regular vehicles inspections is not a negative. "
Until you've had your car totalled because the guy behind lost his brakes. Happens. And the funny blue and purple and magenta pink headlights...really, having some minimum standard for operating safety is not such a bad concept.
Or don't you think anyone down there skids in the arin, from riding bald tires?

"~$400 to title a new car isn't a burden." Maybe not, but paying the same $500 to simply TRANSFER a title in, is punitive. And losing 11 months on the registration because it tolls on your birthday, even if that's next week, is kinda stupid too. Florida claims doing it any other way would be too complicated, somehow other states have no problem with such advanced concepts.
One in four Florida drivers is also unlicensed or uninsured. Florida claims it is too difficult to verify insurance cards and seize cars when the insurance is no longer in effect. Other states? Right, you guessed it. Let your insurance lapse in NY, and you get a nastygram in the mail the next day, followed by the sheriffs looking to seize the vehicle by the end of the month. Uninsured vehicles? 1 in 10, instead of 1 in 4.
Oh, and license plates? You know, most states require them front and back, or allow them front and back, so you can see who is coming at you. Florida? Nope, you have to survive long enough to read the back plate while someone is driving away, no front plates ALLOWED or available, at all. And of course, you are expected to park facing IN to a spot, which is several times more dangerous than backing in, so you can see the cross traffic when you pull out. See, if you parked facing out, no one could check your plates, because that's the naked end of the car. Oh yes, that's logical.

For a state that has done a marvelous job putting everything on the internet, "Gee, that's really hard!" comes up too often.

And where else do busses stop in the traffic lane, instead of pulling into a bus stop?

Where else do big bright yellow/orange school busses need blinding white strobe lights on them, just in case the folks can see something ten feet wide, ten feet tall, and bright orange in front of them?

Nah. There are reasons for eveyrthing in Florida, just as there are eveywhere else. But Florida marches to a radically different drummer, compared to the other 49 states. There's a reason the Gold Coast newspapers--some of them respected multiple Pulitzer Prize winners--call their home state "FloriDUH!"

I understand: Cheap, easy, unregulated. Great for farmlands, but Florida ain't all farms and swamps anymore.
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Old 20-02-2013, 11:07   #72
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Re: Fla

Complain about Florida all you want. Today, I have the boat all open and I am wearing just a pair of shorts. I think I wore shoes (other than going north) once this year, and that was to take my wife to Bern's Steak House.
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Old 20-02-2013, 11:54   #73
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Re: Fla

You know what? You guys are right. Florida is awful. The laws are stupid and confusing. The police are all Nazis. The weather is horrible. The bugs worse. The taxes are outrageously high. The cost of living is through the roof. There's no place at all where you are allowed to anchor. The sailing is probably the worst of anywhere in North America.

This is NOT a place that you want to come to. Trust me on this. Stay home and I'm sure we'll all be happier. (At least, I'm sure I will be!)
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Old 20-02-2013, 11:56   #74
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Re: Fla

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"Not having regular vehicles inspections is not a negative. "
Until you've had your car totalled because the guy behind lost his brakes. Happens. And the funny blue and purple and magenta pink headlights...really, having some minimum standard for operating safety is not such a bad concept.
Or don't you think anyone down there skids in the arin, from riding bald tires?

"~$400 to title a new car isn't a burden." Maybe not, but paying the same $500 to simply TRANSFER a title in, is punitive. And losing 11 months on the registration because it tolls on your birthday, even if that's next week, is kinda stupid too. Florida claims doing it any other way would be too complicated, somehow other states have no problem with such advanced concepts.
One in four Florida drivers is also unlicensed or uninsured. Florida claims it is too difficult to verify insurance cards and seize cars when the insurance is no longer in effect. Other states? Right, you guessed it. Let your insurance lapse in NY, and you get a nastygram in the mail the next day, followed by the sheriffs looking to seize the vehicle by the end of the month. Uninsured vehicles? 1 in 10, instead of 1 in 4.
Oh, and license plates? You know, most states require them front and back, or allow them front and back, so you can see who is coming at you. Florida? Nope, you have to survive long enough to read the back plate while someone is driving away, no front plates ALLOWED or available, at all. And of course, you are expected to park facing IN to a spot, which is several times more dangerous than backing in, so you can see the cross traffic when you pull out. See, if you parked facing out, no one could check your plates, because that's the naked end of the car. Oh yes, that's logical.

For a state that has done a marvelous job putting everything on the internet, "Gee, that's really hard!" comes up too often.

And where else do busses stop in the traffic lane, instead of pulling into a bus stop?

Where else do big bright yellow/orange school busses need blinding white strobe lights on them, just in case the folks can see something ten feet wide, ten feet tall, and bright orange in front of them?

Nah. There are reasons for eveyrthing in Florida, just as there are eveywhere else. But Florida marches to a radically different drummer, compared to the other 49 states. There's a reason the Gold Coast newspapers--some of them respected multiple Pulitzer Prize winners--call their home state "FloriDUH!"

I understand: Cheap, easy, unregulated. Great for farmlands, but Florida ain't all farms and swamps anymore.
You need to stop believing everything you read on the Internet. Second, you need to stop regurgitating all you read on the Internet. I don't believe your driver/insurance statistics and have evidence they are wrong!

Apparently you don't get out much. School buses with strobes stopping in the traffic lane, hence stopping all traffic, is the norm in many states.

Not collecting annual fees to enforce car safety laws is simply smart. Why burden law abiding citizens with PIA inspections and high costs to enforce the law on a few. Especially when all inspection systems are not only expensive, they are wrought with fraud and corruption.

The good news: There are 49 other states to chose from!

I'll continue to consume BTUs in my boat engine, you continue to consume them heating your house! We'll both be happy!
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Old 20-02-2013, 12:27   #75
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Re: Fla

"School buses with strobes stopping in the traffic lane,"
Sure. But DRIVING with obnoxious white strobes flashing ALL THE TIME, when strobes are known to blind drives and ruin depth vision? Totally unnecessary.

And as any Florida legislator could tell you, since school busses are SO dangerous, and school zones are SO dangerous, and school crossings are SO dangerous...I don't know how my generation lived without all that fuss, but if teh damned gummint would only let Florida end compulsory education, it would save so many young lives. Compulsory education and trying to get the kids to pass the FCAT...year after year, all that wasted tax money when they could just let the kids start working on the farms while they were young.

Ah, FloriDUH.

I'm not complaining, I'd just like to see it granted freedom and nationhood on its own.<G>
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