Fixer-up vs Ready-To-Go

[gallatin1988]

I am currently looking at a 1978 38' double-ended cutter with an excellent pedigree. Many sisterships have many significant long voyages. She is a purpose built off-shore cruising boat. In terms of type, design and quality, she is the the kind of boat I've looking for. I could easily see me owning this boat for many years.

I've talked to owner and think I can get it for a relative good price though not as cheap as others. I would be the 3rd owner. The current owner has owned the boat for 5 years and not actively sailed the boat in the last 2. Prior to his owning the boat, it sat in the hard for an unknown length of time (my bet is at least 2 years).

The hull (no blisters), deck (no spot spots), spars, rudder, Monitor windvane, and teak interior are all in good to excellent and the bilges are dry. But it is due for a major refit, including possibly a new engine (the current one is the orginal) or a rebuild, new tankage (fresh water and fuel), and new standing rigging and chainplates. There are no electronics to speak of and no roller furling. I want to think to this boat as almost a blank canvas so to speak.

I am fairly handy and have time to commit to the project over the next 2 years. I believe I could do about 50% to 60% of the work myself.

Ballparking it, I think I could spend $40,000 to $50,000 maybe even upwards of $60,000 on this boat. The boat is near me so I wouldn't have to pay move it or move it myself. If I spent $50,000 on the refit it would put me pretty squarely in range of what BUC reports as the historic selling price for the boat in bristol condition.

There are sisterships on the market now with a listing price of what I could spend on the boat in question, though I'd have the additional expense of traveling to see them, moving them and when all is said done still having to possibly undertaking a refit to some degree or another. I'm extremely skeptical of that there really is such a thing a turn-key cruising boat.

Questions:
Those who have undertaken such a project were you glad you did or did you wish you hadn't?
If you passed on the idea what factors went into the decision?
What would you consider absolute deal-killers?
What some of the factors I should take into account in making my decision?
What is the conventional wisdom about this?

Any other insights, ideas, thoughts are welcome.

Thanks,
Sam

[Stu Jackson]

Sam,


The answer or part of it may be found by doing a search on "project boats." The general consensus agrees with you that there may not be many turnkey sailaways, but it also concludes that even a pristine boat needs work and sometimes the non-pristine ones gobble up much more time than originally projected.


Then it's: "Would you rather be working or sailing?"

[laika]

It seems like you are coming at this from a good angle.

Where would you be refitting? Boatyard? Backyard? How excited are you by the prospect of not sailing for a long, long time?

"Those who have undertaken such a project were you glad you did or did you wish you hadn't?"

Time spent in a boatyard is time you'll never get back, but it's worthwhile if you enjoy the projects and wake up each day excited to get more done. You will know the systems you refit yourself intimately and will be able to vouch for every turn of the screw.

I think 50k for new engine, new rigging, roller furling, new tanks, new electronics, and all the bits and pieces along the way may prove quite optimistic. But it sounds like the boat may be a good candidate for all these improvements if you've got the time and money.

Some people abhor time in boatyards, while some just love fiddling away and may, in actuality, never leave the yard with their boats. The consensus is typically "Tackle the basics and go sail. Then decide what the boat really needs later." What that means in your case is debatable.

I spent a year in a boatyard getting my boat ready for the horizon. 7 years later, looking back, I wasted a lot of time and money getting things "just so". I learned a lot, but I would not do it again. There are better things to do with your time. Like sailing.

If you undertake this project, be careful of the mission creep and be ready for the occasional bout of boatyard blues. It will help to have some friends nearby who can take you sailing on their boat, or having a little sailing dinghy to take out yourself.

[nwdiver]

Up side you will KNOW the major systems are all in good shape for the next 10 years........the down side cost creep, as an example......I was redoing my water tank, there are several very good roto molded plastic producers that do hundreds of shapes and sizes.......I ended up with custom stainless steel, I don't regret it but the cost was 4 fold higher.......on the other hand knowing my new Beta engine will outlive the boat is very comforting.

[letsgetsailing3]

Seems like you're being pretty realistic.


And those "bristol" boats likely don't have a new motor or the new equipment you're planning to add.


Beware of mission creep and stick to your schedule. Sounds like you're looking at a decent boat

[john61ct]

It is likely what you think will cost $50K will end up $100 or more.

Yes truly turnkey is very very rare, and there is always work needing doing, upgrades "needed".

But if you can afford the time looking, spending that fixer upper budget on a boat much closer to where you want to be is likely to save both money and boatyard time.

unless you **actually like** boatyard time

[RaymondR]

Some folks is boat sailors and some folks is boat builders. The boat sailors see boat building as a waste of their sailing time and the builders sailing as a waste of their building time. Your first decision is whether you are a builder or a sailor.

I knew a bloke once who spent six years building his boat, launched it, had a big cast off party and sailed off over the horizon. A few days later he was back. When I asked an acquaintance what had happened I was informed that he had found a cupboard door he had overlooked painting. It was quiet obvious that the bloke was a boat builder and would probably have been happier selling the boat and starting another one rather than cruising.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by john61ct

It is likely what you think will cost $50K will end up $100 or more.

.......

Is that your experience in getting a boat ready?

What would you have said if the OP estimated $25k to fixup? Would you tell him Oh no, it will be more like $50k!!!

For the jobs and description that the OP stated, the $50k sounds like a fairly comfortable estimate, assuming he/she is reasonably handy and willing to work.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by john61ct

It is likely what you think will cost $50K will end up $100 or more.

Yes truly turnkey is very very rare, and there is always work needing doing, upgrades "needed".

But if you can afford the time looking, spending that fixer upper budget on a boat much closer to where you want to be is likely to save both money and boatyard time.

unless you **actually like** boatyard time

I don't doubt that he'll find more that he can do, just like he would with a different boat. But he'll also know what he's fixed.

It's worth looking at the boat critically, but that's also true of any boat of that vintage.

[sailorboy1]

So around $110k to have a fixed up 1978 boat, which when it’s all done is a ............. 1978 boat old school of thinking boat.

To me that’s just crazy when for the same price you could get a great condition and fitted out 2000 boat and be a lot more comfortable.

I bet you picked this boat from some 20 year book about “blue water” boats

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

So around $110k to have a fixed up 1978 boat, which when it’s all done is a ............. 1978 boat old school of thinking boat.

To me that’s just crazy when for the same price you could get a great condition and fitted out 2000 boat and be a lot more comfortable.

I bet you picked this boat from some 20 year book about “blue water” boats

Perfect assessment, I couldn't have written it better.

[john61ct]

I must have missed the purchase price reveal?

If that's accurate, spending such a high proportion of that on the fixing up process, then an "even more so" wrt my general opinion expressed above. A thoroughly surveyed, closer to pristine example would end up being a better bargain, as well as getting out there more quickly.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

So around $110k to have a fixed up 1978 boat, which when it’s all done is a ............. 1978 boat old school of thinking boat.

To me that’s just crazy when for the same price you could get a great condition and fitted out 2000 boat and be a lot more comfortable.

I bet you picked this boat from some 20 year book about “blue water” boats

But you forget here that the OP has said that he prefers a more traditionally designed cruiser... he WANTS that set of features. YOU may not appreciate them, but then it is HIS money on the line, not yours.

As to the trade offs with the fixer-upper vs "turn key": It is easy to dismiss the idea of the refit and say that it is better to buy a pristine boat, etc. However, the existence of such a boat is far from sure, and to find it at a reasonable price even less sure. And looking at many ads for extensively refit boats, I've noted that often the time span for the refit has been so long that many of the "new" items ain't so new any more.

Finally, the thought of getting sailing sooner in the refit boat sounds good when you say it fast, but you could spend the rest of your life searching for that ephemeral boat... the damn thing may not even exist! At least if you are doing the refit yourself you have some control over the end date. Sure, many such projects run over the time estimate, but you can pull the plug and launch earlier if the urge to sail overwhelms your desire for completion to plan.

Neither route is trouble free nor foolproof, and the choice isn't easy!

Jim

[john61ct]

Yes willingness to spend time and money on the "purchasing quest" is a factor, and maybe examples of **that** specific boat are truly rare.

In my case for example I think a Nor'sea 27 would be ideal, but even if I had the ready cash - I don't - all five examples I've come across are thousands of miles away.

[AKA-None]

You can always make it sail then fix what breaks or what you don’t like.
I sailed my current boat for a season before I touched anything. Ymmv