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Old 13-12-2014, 18:32   #31
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Location: Marina del Rey, California
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Re: First launch and ballast advice please.

"tat, tat, tat--you sound like you'd be an interesting guy to have a drink with. Being totally new to boats, you bought one, totally stripped it out and refitted it. ??? I don't know whether to admire you or just be amazed.

a64 also gave you a good piece of advice...get a knowledgeable person to look it over. Not some old guy dressed in a pirate costume. If you were smart you would have taken photos before removing ballast and stripping out the boat. If you expect good advice, here, you will post some photos of inside and out. And please let us know how you plan to use this."

Quote:
Originally Posted by tat View Post
You've lost me a bit there, Terra, like it is in coded code.

I did take photos of it all in great detail.....in my head.
Lost? Code? Tried to use small words, but let me help you out.

Knowing next to nothing about boats did not stop you from buying, stripping and refitting one. It would be just as easy to view this as very bold or incredibly foolish.

You had asked some old "experienced-looking" guy for advice. Instead, engage someone who is actually qualified to judge your boat's seaworthiness.

If you can't buy or borrow a camera, pencil sketches on paper would suffice to document the major modifications you've made, ballast location and amount, etc. These can be scanned and posted. Without that information, how can you expect someone who's never seen your boat to offer specific, usable advice?

How you intend to use the boat is pertinent information that needs considering in order to advise.

Hope I've cleared up your confusion. If there are "nautical" terms with which you are unfamiliar, like "seaworthiness" try Google. Or ask.
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Old 13-12-2014, 18:34   #32
tat
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Location: west yorkshire
Boat: cabin cruiser 22ft
Posts: 65
Re: First launch and ballast advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shipleft View Post
Hey Tat, it is very unlikely your boat is going to turn turtle on you, they don't make them that tender, especially your kind of boat. What you removed was basically trimming weight added to get the boat to perform better than without. Like getting the bow down so she'd plane better or to right a little port or starboard list. Does the boat have adjustable trim tabs on the transom? Do they work? These are what powered boats like you have usually use to trim the boat while it is running at speed.On some older boats you have to adjust them manually by loosening and re=tightening various bolts after trying the tab setting out, most newer boats have electrical-hydraulic adjusters so you do your levelling and fore and aft trim adjustments on the fly as the size of boat you have can be pretty sensitive to changes of where weight is situated in the boat like food, coolers full of ice and refreshments, people, water, spare fuel containers, chain, anchours, or other gear brought aboard for a trip. You really don't want to be moving bags full of sand or metal ingots around every time you head out just to trim the rig! all that weight up front is not such a good thing as it can adversely affect how the boat handles in varying wave conditions, as far as pitching when bucking or quartering into it or yawing and broaching when taking it on the stern quarters or transom. See what she looks like floating, look at other boats of the same type and size and compare how yours looks. Put all the heavier stuff you intend to carry most of the time onto the boat, fill the gas tank, water tank(s), then look at it again. is it still looking level from side to side ? Does it look overly deeply laden in the stern? Unlike most sailcraft, "cabin-cruisers" don't usually have a designated waterline that they are supposed to float at when not moving through the water, so any paint lines they may have really don't mean a lot when trying to judge if she's loaded properly to get the best handling out of her underway. Some boats have had various re-builds over several owners and the original size and location of the heavier components she was built with may have changed, this makes it a guessing game as to what changes you may have to make to get her nack on an even keel as they say. Good luck with that!
I think you are spot on. Someone has said that theirs was very sensitive to con trol. I think that trim and and all that is important, very important, and i would like to get it right to get the optimum performance.

if you are able to come over to my place you are welcome. Plenty of beers, get the boat right, and a good do allround.
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Old 13-12-2014, 18:38   #33
tat
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Re: First launch and ballast advice please.

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Originally Posted by tat View Post
'I think it's a far more helpful post than any of mine, for instance.' You are just like me, concerned only with what is right and true with the matter. Respect.
I have just twigged it: the guy was a professional pilot, so he would have been sensitive to trim, etc................simple as that. well there you go. problem solved...........I hope.
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Old 13-12-2014, 19:03   #34
tat
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Re: First launch and ballast advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justwaiting View Post
Hi Tat - sounds like you could have a lot of fun on that boat.

I would agree with every thing that has been said - maybe I can add to it a little.

I can not see why any cabin cruiser should need ballast added IF it has been used and modified within it original designed specs. What often happens with boats such as yours is that larger motors have been added to the boat post production. This would have the effect of adding weight at the stern and increasing the tendency for the back of the boat to burry when under power. The additional effect of heavily weighting a boat at the stern is that the effect of water from rain is going to have a greater effect and increasing the chance of sinking the boat. The 6 weights in the bow of the boat suggests that a PO has increased the motor size. With most boats the advantages of increased power is at least partially offset by increased fuel consumption and increased wake.

Without knowing your boat or having photos we have to guess a lot and answer question that might otherwise not need answering.

If we assume that the boat has an out board I would make several recommendation

Launch the boat the first time without any "ballast and without the motor. Hopefully the boat will sit bow down. Add the 56 pound weight at the stern until the boat sits level. This might give you an idea of a suitable weight for an outboard that will not require counterbalancing at the bow.

Secondly I would add you weight to the side of the boat - stand on the gunnels because if a 22 foot boat can not handle that .....

2 stupid points because I have seen both MANY times - of course I have never done either make sure that you have hold of a line that IS attached to the boat and that any drain hole in the stern IS fitting with its plug
Yep, thanks for that. I see now that it is more than just getting the boat afloat. You can come, too, for the launch, the week beginning the 4th Jan. What do you reckon, we launch the boat and then go to the pub? but only if Ann is there.

For Ann. http://youtu.be/bJ_LLwQ7Pck
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Old 13-12-2014, 19:12   #35
tat
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Re: First launch and ballast advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cajucito View Post
I had a similar Boat before I got the sailing bug. On a boat like this I would say that floatation is more important than ballast. But whoever put the ballast in probably did it for a good reason. The suggestion that it was put their to compensate for added weight higher up sounds very logical to me. My first port of call will be to locate the previous owner or even the one before that and find out who put it there and why. When refitting I was perplexed to find hundreds of small plastic bottles with tightly screwed on caps both under the floor, in the bow at both sides of the stern and along the sides behind seats. The previous owner explained they were floatation chambers and if the boat ever hit a log or a rock at speed and the hull was breached and water started coming in then only a small number of the bottles will get punctured and the intact ones will keep you afloat giving you time to seal the hole and pump out. I always felt very safe in that boat. Thankfully it was never put to the test.
The previous owner is brown bread, alas. So will never know. The bottles are a very good idea..I bet a woman thought of that first as it is so obvious ( I mean that is the most respectful sense.....us blokes just miss the obvious sometimes and need it pointing out, putting on the right track).
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Old 13-12-2014, 19:34   #36
tat
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Location: west yorkshire
Boat: cabin cruiser 22ft
Posts: 65
Re: First launch and ballast advice please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justwaiting View Post
Hi Tat - sounds like you could have a lot of fun on that boat.

I would agree with every thing that has been said - maybe I can add to it a little.

I can not see why any cabin cruiser should need ballast added IF it has been used and modified within it original designed specs. What often happens with boats such as yours is that larger motors have been added to the boat post production. This would have the effect of adding weight at the stern and increasing the tendency for the back of the boat to burry when under power. The additional effect of heavily weighting a boat at the stern is that the effect of water from rain is going to have a greater effect and increasing the chance of sinking the boat. The 6 weights in the bow of the boat suggests that a PO has increased the motor size. With most boats the advantages of increased power is at least partially offset by increased fuel consumption and increased wake.

Without knowing your boat or having photos we have to guess a lot and answer question that might otherwise not need answering.

If we assume that the boat has an out board I would make several recommendation

Launch the boat the first time without any "ballast and without the motor. Hopefully the boat will sit bow down. Add the 56 pound weight at the stern until the boat sits level. This might give you an idea of a suitable weight for an outboard that will not require counterbalancing at the bow.

Secondly I would add you weight to the side of the boat - stand on the gunnels because if a 22 foot boat can not handle that .....

2 stupid points because I have seen both MANY times - of course I have never done either make sure that you have hold of a line that IS attached to the boat and that any drain hole in the stern IS fitting with its plug
it is a good point about launching the boat without any ballast and then adding as necessary.I will take the launch now far more carefully than I anticipated. Thanks.
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