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Old 23-06-2016, 21:21   #121
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

I have driven with bad tires, I got lucky and did not kill anyone nor did I die.

I have driven drunk twice, I got lucky and did not kill anyone nor did I did.

I had a gun to off when I was not expecting it. Yes, my finger was on the trigger. I got lucky and did not kill anyone nor did I die.

Having a father take his boat with his kids to get it fixed and then having a storm blow in and sink their boat...seems like real bad luck.

I do not know the circumstances nor the pressure to get the boat to where it could be fixed but I do know I probably would have done the same as that father did.








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Old 23-06-2016, 21:41   #122
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Truly a sad, sad event. One that could happen to any and all of us that venture out on the water.

I fervently hope that all aboard were not claimed by the reaper.
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Old 23-06-2016, 22:28   #123
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

"Yes, so sad. And one issue I, myself have is how easy it is to go MOB on this size of sailing vessel. I wonder myself how in the heck I would stay on. "




Offshore life vest with harness tethered to jack lines.

Four weeks ago I was sailing with my family from Key West to Fort Myers about 35 miles offshore (on the rhumb line). By 3:00am the light northwest breeze had shifted to an easterly 24 knot wind with gusts to 30. Seas built up very quickly and within an hour and a little further north we had 6 to 7ft steep waves. In total darkness we were broadsided by a breaking rogue wave, probably 8ft. Crew in the cockpit were tossed around and drenched. Not a total knockdown but sudden extreme heel which recovered quickly. Our rule is to always tether in to the jack lines in those condition and always tether in at night unless a dead calm. If we hadn't done that I'm sure we would have had a MOB that night. We have a robust 41ft 35,000lb. full keel ocean cruiser but any boat unexpectedly broadsided by a breaking roque wave can toss a crew around dangerously. The Gulf can get very nasty very quickly and needs to be respected.
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Old 23-06-2016, 22:54   #124
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Every time something like this comes up, the Monday morning QBing starts and a whole different group starts to come on and talk about how horrible it is that people are evaluating the tragedy and that we should have empathy. It happens in the aviation world, too. Yet, we keep reading the same stories with people doing things that result in tragedies.

While I agree that we need to be empathetic, this is absolutely a tragedy when 4 family members are killed, we also need to take time to evaluate what we went wrong and apply it to ourselves. While the alcohol discussion is probably a bit of a stretch in this context, discussions around the preparation and decision making certainly are not. If anything, we need to be having more of these conversations and discussions, not just here, but with those physically around us.

We need to be willing to have uncomfortable conversations and break down these tragic events, then apply them to ourselves and the community. People are doing irresponsible things on boats. I walk around the marina and hear people bragging about their irresponsible behavior all the time and rarely does anyone say anything. By educating ourselves and those around us about these events, as tragic as they are, we can prevent future tragedies.

It is possible to be empathetic and still evaluate the lessons learned.
What he said
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Old 24-06-2016, 06:31   #125
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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.
Having a father take his boat with his kids to get it fixed and then having a storm blow in and sink their boat...seems like real bad luck.
With modern weather forecast and the responsibility for precious cargo, it seems more like bad judgement.
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Old 24-06-2016, 07:22   #126
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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With modern weather forecast and the responsibility for precious cargo, it seems more like bad judgement.
I agree, nothing to do with bad luck in this case.

A tragic event, made all the more tragic because, like most boating accidents, it was completely prevetable.
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Old 24-06-2016, 07:42   #127
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

A tragic loss.


Every VHF I have owned has a WX button on it, pretty handy to drink my coffee and listen to first thing in the morning.

Looking at the specs of their boat it was about the same as a Catalina 27 but 2 feet longer with a skeg.

Having owned a C27 I recall it being a bit tender as it was pretty light. Once we were running off in 20+knots under a partial jib and had a rudder stall and a 45 degree lay over. One of those things that crept up on me as we had been sailing for 4 or 5 hours at that point. I was on a schedule so at that point started the OB kicker and kept going on bare poles. I can imagine an OB motor would be a liability in that situation towing two kayaks as the painter would be a hazard to the prop.

The question is in a light boat and confused seas with an OB kicker what do you do? Do you go on the kicker, turn into the wind and pound it out waiting for the weather to break? Do you close all the hatches, put the rudder over and lay ahull? Do you try to run off?

I hope they find the 2 folk that remain missing clinging to a cooler with a flair gun. We can always hope.
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Old 24-06-2016, 07:45   #128
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Luck plays a major part from cradle to grave.

Yes. Being prepared improves your odds but life is the flip of a coin.
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Old 24-06-2016, 08:23   #129
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

I am still not on the bad judgement band wagon. As a human our decision making has a desired outcome. We see this outcome that we want as coming true. It is called 'hope'.

Human decision making depends on luck. Case in point - Humans build houses where there are fires, sink holes, floods, land slides, lighning strikes, tornados, hurricanes, snakes, alligators, crime.

Now - as humans we also evaluate risk differently. Also our financial well being allow some to mitigate risk.

Example - a big safer boat with all the latest weather and electronics devices vs a smaller boat with minimal safety equipment.

This father was trying for a certain outcome. No different than any of us. Things just did not pan out.



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Old 24-06-2016, 08:31   #130
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by The Garbone View Post
The question is in a light boat and confused seas with an OB kicker what do you do? Do you go on the kicker, turn into the wind and pound it out waiting for the weather to break? Do you close all the hatches, put the rudder over and lay ahull? Do you try to run off?
In my 29 footer, I would never elect to lie ahull in steep breaking seas. Given a hypothetical "30 knots and steep 6' seas" I would prefer to keep steerage, running or more likely broad reaching, with just a jib and just be ready for a broach, and watching for breaking waves to windward. Hopefully I would have a drogue available if needed to keep the speed down, the stern pulled back, and keep from falling down the hill into a broach.
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Old 24-06-2016, 09:14   #131
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

One easy lesson is to get a SPOT or INreach and keep it on hand. For someone like me who both sails and does other sports, it's useful in a lot of circumstances. Cheap insurance in my view. I bought a SPOT about 6 years ago when I looked at the average age of the participants for a week rafting trip on Gray's and Desolation Canyons. The odds of a medical issue increase with age.
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Old 24-06-2016, 09:22   #132
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

What I can't get past in my mind, is why, when you know you are in trouble, and calling your brother, you don't instruct your crew to put on available life vests?

From what I have heard, they had 7 on board, and 6 have been found floating, empty.
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Old 24-06-2016, 10:00   #133
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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What I can't get past in my mind, is why, when you know you are in trouble, and calling your brother, you don't instruct your crew to put on available life vests?

From what I have heard, they had 7 on board, and 6 have been found floating, empty.
At least one of the bodies recovered did have a PFD on. Have not heard about the other.

Good to keep in mind that dad may have been the first one overboard. If the kids were depending on his abilities and guidance that would be catastrophic.

The whole thing is so sad.
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Old 24-06-2016, 10:12   #134
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

The whole thing is a tragedy. My guess would be not even lack of judgement but lake of experience. I would think with four living on a 27 ft. boat, money was tight so modern bells a whistles were probably not an option. Sad situation.
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Old 24-06-2016, 10:13   #135
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Has anyone addressed the issue if this man was a sailor or rather someone who lived on a sailboat? How much experience did he have on the water? The picture of the vessel provided in an earlier submission lacked a mainsail. Was this a temporary omission or did none exist? A comment was also made by a gas attendant at Burnt Store marina in Charlotte Harbor about the condition of the vessel picturing it in a negative light. This is truly a sad tragedy but was this a bad draw of luck or an example of incompetence, inexperience, and an ill found vessel that resulted in the loss of four people? I have never been a fan of more government control in peoples lives, but perhaps a certification similar to the European models might have prevented these deaths. And, then we have the hot button issue of derelict boats in Florida . . .
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