Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-07-2016, 17:48   #451
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in the Caribbean
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,582
Images: 25
Re: New EPIRB law in effect in aftermath of teens lost at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Well, that's one way to encourage people to carry an epirb and not get all suspicious of big brother.. I like this idea. Though I suspect if someone doesn't have an 'epirb' because they can't afford one, then cheaper yearly rego is hardly going to make a difference.
(Not having a shot at rusticchalm)
Its superfluous. This family would never had had an EPIRB no matter what the laws are, nor the costs.

I dont understand why people cant grasp the points about this, and the other obvious salient points about this particular case.
Are you'all not reading?

Why not?
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2016, 19:12   #452
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 823
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

This law does not make any locating device mandatory. I guess it will help a little for a few boaters. It is a tiny step in the right direction.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
tuffr2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2016, 19:56   #453
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Copperopolis CA
Boat: Morgan 382
Posts: 6
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

No laws or afterthought can fix these type of situations. It ALL boils down to personal responsibility. For the most part, live or die depends upon the decisions you make in life. Period. Sad truth about a terrible disaster.
__________________
mud bug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2016, 20:09   #454
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 131
Images: 1
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom30 View Post
What this family encountered can't properly be called "seas".

The shallow nature of that area keeps all wave energy at the surface. The 6 foot "seas" under normal circumstances would be a square, steep, chop 6 feet tall and 3-4 seconds in period. a 29' boat would be slammed upward at once, then dropped like a rock, every 4 seconds. Tabbed bulkheads are no match. If the keel bolts have defects, forget it. I once spent 16 hours in exactly those conditions a little north of there. I was in a heavy boat (18,000# 30') which has circumnavigated and sails to windward like a dream under nearly all conditions. In 16 hours I made about 5 miles in the face of the square chop. Our inboard diesel was useless, as no momentum could be achieved.

Hugging the coast under those conditions is doable, but clearing the shoals at Charlotte Harbor puts you a minimum of 2.5 miles off, and that's far enough to be not doable. This boat was light (6600 lbs) with a fin keel that has no hydrodynamic bite in that chop. The outboard kicker would be most useful as an anchor. They got easterlies sustained in the upper 20's with big gusts, so the farther off they blew (running would be their only option), the worse it got. If the fin keel boat gets beam-on to that square chop, the result is violent and repeated every 4 seconds.

So terrible for the family and friends.


'
I think this comment reinforces the dangers of so many modern boats. Too many sailors fail to realize that these boats are just not built for seas that are not that uncommon. A heavy boat with a strong engine is the only good choice for serious cruising (in my opinion). Our boat does really well in short chop, and we have an oversized engine not for more speed but for more grunt under difficult conditions like this. These accidents remind us that overbuilt boats are the way to go. I expect someone to reply that a fast boat is best because you can do a quicker passage, but this example shows the futility of that argument some of the time. A serious cruising boat should be built and designed for rare events, not good conditions. If it's not that strongly built, it ought not leave protected waters.

But this is just my opinion.
__________________
Lantau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 02:04   #455
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Panama / Bahamas / Newport RI / Marathon Fl (now mostly)
Boat: Bristol CC 41.1
Posts: 284
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Epirb?.... I think a VHF was all that was needed. Enough traffic in the area for someone to pick up a MAY DAY.... But it looks like it may have been too sudden and brutal for that inexperienced captain to handle. He probably got rolled and dismasted.
__________________
sailingfarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 02:09   #456
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,882
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfarmer View Post
Epirb?.... I think a VHF was all that was needed. Enough traffic in the area for someone to pick up a MAY DAY.... But it looks like it may have been too sudden and brutal for that inexperienced captain to handle. He probably got rolled and dismasted.
If he got rolled, the a vhf wouldn't have been a lot of use.

Loose your antenna? Your radio gets soaked? Not a lot of use then.

There's no doubt about it, an epirb could have saved all of their lives, as long as it was used early enough.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 04:39   #457
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Panama / Bahamas / Newport RI / Marathon Fl (now mostly)
Boat: Bristol CC 41.1
Posts: 284
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
If he got rolled, the a vhf wouldn't have been a lot of use.

Loose your antenna? Your radio gets soaked? Not a lot of use then.

There's no doubt about it, an epirb could have saved all of their lives, as long as it was used early enough.
Let's use your logic.... Boat gets rolled and immediately sinks.... EPIRB sends signal to satellite...sattelite sends signal to Coast Guard... Coast Guard gets coordinates where signal came from.. CG sends helicopter from Tampa in middle of storm....hours later.... waves too high to see anything.... CG returns when weather calms to pick up remains... Thanks EPIRB
__________________
sailingfarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 04:51   #458
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,882
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfarmer View Post
Let's use your logic.... Boat gets rolled and immediately sinks.... EPIRB sends signal to satellite...sattelite sends signal to Coast Guard... Coast Guard gets coordinates where signal came from.. CG sends helicopter from Tampa in middle of storm....hours later.... Coast guard picks up cold but alive crew... Thanks EPIRB
This one
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 04:54   #459
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Panama / Bahamas / Newport RI / Marathon Fl (now mostly)
Boat: Bristol CC 41.1
Posts: 284
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
This one
They must have used the EPIRB as a flotation devise because they didn't have life jackets on... Thanks EPIRB
__________________
sailingfarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 04:57   #460
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Panama / Bahamas / Newport RI / Marathon Fl (now mostly)
Boat: Bristol CC 41.1
Posts: 284
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

I remember Steve Callahan's book on his survival in a rubber raft at sea... his one lament was... "if only I had a VHF to contact the passing ships that didn't see me."
__________________
sailingfarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 05:03   #461
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,882
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfarmer View Post
They must have used the EPIRB as a flotation devise because they didn't have life jackets on... Thanks EPIRB
Or they were very very tired

I really don't understand how anyone can belittle the place of epirbs. More than 25000 people have been rescued since the system was begun. It is without doubt a seriously important and without doubt the highest priority safety device.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 05:08   #462
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Panama / Bahamas / Newport RI / Marathon Fl (now mostly)
Boat: Bristol CC 41.1
Posts: 284
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Rustic... my original point was... it is far more important while coastal cruising with 1000's of potential rescue boats within radio distance to have a VHF than an EPIRB.... for one thing it's quicker and you can help the rescuer with your location with a working handheld VHF.
__________________
sailingfarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 05:23   #463
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,882
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfarmer View Post
Rustic... my original point was... it is far more important while coastal cruising with 1000's of potential rescue boats within radio distance to have a VHF than an EPIRB.... for one thing it's quicker and you can help the rescuer with your location with a working handheld VHF.
If you know exactly where you are, yes. And as long as you can stay where you know you are and convey that to those ships, with the limited battery you have to 'transmit'. Which I'm sure you know will run a radio down very quickly.
__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 05:34   #464
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Panama / Bahamas / Newport RI / Marathon Fl (now mostly)
Boat: Bristol CC 41.1
Posts: 284
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Rustic...at best and I am sure you know... an EPIRB only lasts 24 to 48 hours with fully charged batteries. In the case of coastal cruising... A VHF can las just as long while not continuously transmitting if not much longer.... a VHF contact has to be within 20 miles maximum when contacted. even at 5 kts. that's a few hours to the rescue...remember a VHS with AIS when it comes to location... Next time you go coastal cruising I suggest you grab your VHF handheld first THEN your EPIRB... just my simple thought on priorities.
__________________
sailingfarmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2016, 05:48   #465
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,882
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfarmer View Post
Rustic...at best and I am sure you know... an EPIRB only lasts 24 to 48 hours with fully charged batteries. In the case of coastal cruising... A VHF can las just as long while not continuously transmitting if not much longer.... a VHF contact has to be within 20 miles maximum when contacted. even at 5 kts. that's a few hours to the rescue...remember a VHS with AIS when it comes to location... Next time you go coastal cruising I suggest you grab your VHF handheld first THEN your EPIRB... just my simple thought on priorities.
An epirb will 'transmit' for 48 hours as per the standard. A vhf in a rescue situation is useless unless it's transmitting and it can't transmit for very long at all. I'd take a guess at 20 minutes.

I have both, and I'll try to grab both. But I'd never select a VHF over an epirb. It just doesn't make sense.
__________________

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
kids

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Available: Father/Son combo. Two months open and can share expenses. chrisgreta Crew Archives 12 24-02-2016 15:46
Tribute to a fine gentlemen, father-in-law, and sailor Tatheelrod22 General Sailing Forum 16 08-11-2015 22:39
Catamaran sailor kidnaps his 3 kids Sand crab Multihull Sailboats 22 17-05-2014 11:03
Father Missing Off Madagascar Sad Daughter Cruising News & Events 28 16-03-2013 09:24


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.