Father and his kids missing at sea

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Well, that's one way to encourage people to carry an epirb and not get all suspicious of big brother.. I like this idea. Though I suspect if someone doesn't have an 'epirb' because they can't afford one, then cheaper yearly rego is hardly going to make a difference.

(Not having a shot at rusticchalm)
Its superfluous. This family would never had had an EPIRB no matter what the laws are, nor the costs.

I dont understand why people cant grasp the points about this, and the other obvious salient points about this particular case.
Are you'all not reading?

Why not?

[tuffr2]

This law does not make any locating device mandatory. I guess it will help a little for a few boaters. It is a tiny step in the right direction.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[mud bug]

No laws or afterthought can fix these type of situations. It ALL boils down to personal responsibility. For the most part, live or die depends upon the decisions you make in life. Period. Sad truth about a terrible disaster.

[Lantau]

Originally Posted by Custom30

What this family encountered can't properly be called "seas".

The shallow nature of that area keeps all wave energy at the surface. The 6 foot "seas" under normal circumstances would be a square, steep, chop 6 feet tall and 3-4 seconds in period. a 29' boat would be slammed upward at once, then dropped like a rock, every 4 seconds. Tabbed bulkheads are no match. If the keel bolts have defects, forget it. I once spent 16 hours in exactly those conditions a little north of there. I was in a heavy boat (18,000# 30') which has circumnavigated and sails to windward like a dream under nearly all conditions. In 16 hours I made about 5 miles in the face of the square chop. Our inboard diesel was useless, as no momentum could be achieved.

Hugging the coast under those conditions is doable, but clearing the shoals at Charlotte Harbor puts you a minimum of 2.5 miles off, and that's far enough to be not doable. This boat was light (6600 lbs) with a fin keel that has no hydrodynamic bite in that chop. The outboard kicker would be most useful as an anchor. They got easterlies sustained in the upper 20's with big gusts, so the farther off they blew (running would be their only option), the worse it got. If the fin keel boat gets beam-on to that square chop, the result is violent and repeated every 4 seconds.

So terrible for the family and friends.


'

I think this comment reinforces the dangers of so many modern boats. Too many sailors fail to realize that these boats are just not built for seas that are not that uncommon. A heavy boat with a strong engine is the only good choice for serious cruising (in my opinion). Our boat does really well in short chop, and we have an oversized engine not for more speed but for more grunt under difficult conditions like this. These accidents remind us that overbuilt boats are the way to go. I expect someone to reply that a fast boat is best because you can do a quicker passage, but this example shows the futility of that argument some of the time. A serious cruising boat should be built and designed for rare events, not good conditions. If it's not that strongly built, it ought not leave protected waters.

But this is just my opinion.

[sailingfarmer]

Epirb?.... I think a VHF was all that was needed. Enough traffic in the area for someone to pick up a MAY DAY.... But it looks like it may have been too sudden and brutal for that inexperienced captain to handle. He probably got rolled and dismasted.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

Epirb?.... I think a VHF was all that was needed. Enough traffic in the area for someone to pick up a MAY DAY.... But it looks like it may have been too sudden and brutal for that inexperienced captain to handle. He probably got rolled and dismasted.

If he got rolled, the a vhf wouldn't have been a lot of use.

Loose your antenna? Your radio gets soaked? Not a lot of use then.

There's no doubt about it, an epirb could have saved all of their lives, as long as it was used early enough.

[sailingfarmer]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

If he got rolled, the a vhf wouldn't have been a lot of use.

Loose your antenna? Your radio gets soaked? Not a lot of use then.

There's no doubt about it, an epirb could have saved all of their lives, as long as it was used early enough.

Let's use your logic.... Boat gets rolled and immediately sinks.... EPIRB sends signal to satellite...sattelite sends signal to Coast Guard... Coast Guard gets coordinates where signal came from.. CG sends helicopter from Tampa in middle of storm....hours later.... waves too high to see anything.... CG returns when weather calms to pick up remains... Thanks EPIRB

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

Let's use your logic.... Boat gets rolled and immediately sinks.... EPIRB sends signal to satellite...sattelite sends signal to Coast Guard... Coast Guard gets coordinates where signal came from.. CG sends helicopter from Tampa in middle of storm....hours later.... Coast guard picks up cold but alive crew... Thanks EPIRB

This one

[sailingfarmer]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

This one

They must have used the EPIRB as a flotation devise because they didn't have life jackets on... Thanks EPIRB

[sailingfarmer]

I remember Steve Callahan's book on his survival in a rubber raft at sea... his one lament was... "if only I had a VHF to contact the passing ships that didn't see me."

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

They must have used the EPIRB as a flotation devise because they didn't have life jackets on... Thanks EPIRB

Or they were very very tired

I really don't understand how anyone can belittle the place of epirbs. More than 25000 people have been rescued since the system was begun. It is without doubt a seriously important and without doubt the highest priority safety device.

[sailingfarmer]

Rustic... my original point was... it is far more important while coastal cruising with 1000's of potential rescue boats within radio distance to have a VHF than an EPIRB.... for one thing it's quicker and you can help the rescuer with your location with a working handheld VHF.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

Rustic... my original point was... it is far more important while coastal cruising with 1000's of potential rescue boats within radio distance to have a VHF than an EPIRB.... for one thing it's quicker and you can help the rescuer with your location with a working handheld VHF.

If you know exactly where you are, yes. And as long as you can stay where you know you are and convey that to those ships, with the limited battery you have to 'transmit'. Which I'm sure you know will run a radio down very quickly.

[sailingfarmer]

Rustic...at best and I am sure you know... an EPIRB only lasts 24 to 48 hours with fully charged batteries. In the case of coastal cruising... A VHF can las just as long while not continuously transmitting if not much longer.... a VHF contact has to be within 20 miles maximum when contacted. even at 5 kts. that's a few hours to the rescue...remember a VHS with AIS when it comes to location... Next time you go coastal cruising I suggest you grab your VHF handheld first THEN your EPIRB... just my simple thought on priorities.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by sailingfarmer

Rustic...at best and I am sure you know... an EPIRB only lasts 24 to 48 hours with fully charged batteries. In the case of coastal cruising... A VHF can las just as long while not continuously transmitting if not much longer.... a VHF contact has to be within 20 miles maximum when contacted. even at 5 kts. that's a few hours to the rescue...remember a VHS with AIS when it comes to location... Next time you go coastal cruising I suggest you grab your VHF handheld first THEN your EPIRB... just my simple thought on priorities.

An epirb will 'transmit' for 48 hours as per the standard. A vhf in a rescue situation is useless unless it's transmitting and it can't transmit for very long at all. I'd take a guess at 20 minutes.

I have both, and I'll try to grab both. But I'd never select a VHF over an epirb. It just doesn't make sense.