Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-06-2016, 11:00   #346
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wilbur By The Sea, FL
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 655
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

With all tho talk about PLBs and Epirbs let us remember that this was a boat without a functioning VHF. There are a large number of people on the water without a clew about safety. Sure some old salts get by without even a VHF, of course they are not helping themselves or anyone else. No way to hear a coasty Pan Pan on 16 if your not listening.
__________________

__________________
The Garbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 11:46   #347
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 17,561
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by vjm View Post
Why can't they respond to mayday calls, but not to reports that someone without an EPIRB is missing/late?

In the first case, someone is asking for help. In the second case I think that person has made it clear they don't want SAR help.
I'm with Cadence. You are joking, right? A guy with his young family is sinking in a storm, calls the Coast Guard on the VHF, sends his position by DSC, asks for help, and you're saying that the CG is going to say "Sorry, Sir, you're just going to have to drown. We don't come out if there's no EPIRB. Rest in peace, sir."

Very funny.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 11:50   #348
vjm
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 313
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I'm with Cadence. You are joking, right? A guy with his young family is sinking in a storm, calls the Coast Guard on the VHF, sends his position by DSC, asks for help, and you're saying that the CG is going to say "Sorry, Sir, you're just going to have to drown. We don't come out if there's no EPIRB. Rest in peace, sir."

Very funny.
Not joking. You seem to be not reading terribly closely. What I have said is that of course they respond to maydays. So in your scenario, SAR would respond because someone has asked for their help.

If someone does not have an EPIRB, has not sent out a request for assistance, and is merely reported as missing or late, then no SAR response.

Hopefully that clears up any misunderstanding.
__________________
vjm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 11:59   #349
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 14,788
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

I don't think there is a SAR response from just an overdue boat is there?
I know there are Pan Pan's with the CG asking for everyone to be on the look out for the overdue boat, complete with occupants names etc. but I don't think they launch SAR on that.
For example, I forget the name of the boat, but the Sunday of the Tropical storm, three I assume kids left Appalachola in a 29' Catalina bound for Tampa Bay and apparently never made it. I don't think SAR was launched.
But early Sat morning a 74 yr old Man fell off of his boat that was anchored off of Anclote Key, the UH-60 flew over me on the way to that, just before Sunrise, I think to be onsite just as the sun rose, so they launched for a MOB, no question.

I do think that the -60's, 130's and the jets do fly training missions, and in fact looking for an overdue boat, is probably excellent training, so why not tack on a real life mission, to a training one?
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:05   #350
vjm
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 313
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

I think that is hard to tell from what gets reported. In this particular case, it seems the boat was overdue plus the brother received the phone call saying they were struggling. Whether you put this incident or similar incidents (boat is overdue but no call for assistance or with news, panicked family calls for SAR- as in the event last year with two kids off the Florida coast) in one category or another doesn't really change the application.
__________________
vjm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:08   #351
Senior Cruiser
 
Kenomac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Somewhere in the Mediterranean
Boat: Oyster 53 Cutter
Posts: 7,029
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by vjm View Post
Not joking. You seem to be not reading terribly closely. What I have said is that of course they respond to maydays. So in your scenario, SAR would respond because someone has asked for their help.

If someone does not have an EPIRB, has not sent out a request for assistance, and is merely reported as missing or late, then no SAR response.

Hopefully that clears up any misunderstanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vjm View Post
I would appreciate it if everyone could manage to keep their comments polite and not personal.

Thanks.
You're recommending the Coast Guard ignore family requests to search for sailors who are overdue? Do you recommend the same for airplanes overdue or hikers caught out in bad weather?

That doesn't sound very "polite," some may even consider your comment a little "personal."
__________________
Kenomac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:21   #352
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 17,561
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by vjm View Post
Not joking. You seem to be not reading terribly closely. What I have said is that of course they respond to maydays. So in your scenario, SAR would respond because someone has asked for their help.

If someone does not have an EPIRB, has not sent out a request for assistance, and is merely reported as missing or late, then no SAR response.

Hopefully that clears up any misunderstanding.
Yes, I misread your post, and sorry for that.

But still -- I think what you're recommending is to refuse SAR services in some cases, where they are provided now, just because someone does not have an EPIRB. The Coast Guard has a very carefully designed policy about what circumstances can trigger a SAR response. I don't think there will be much support to change these policies as a way to manipulate people, by threat of not rescuing them, to acquire EPIRBs. Just imagine the first case of that young family no one looks for, under the new policy. This does not reflect our values as a society.

If someone wants to require people to have EPIRBs, then the straightforward and honest way to do that is to debate making them mandatory, like in Australia.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:23   #353
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,826
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

yes, the USCG searches for overdues...circumstances and info dictate what actions are taken....and in what order....
__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:23   #354
vjm
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 313
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
You're recommending the Coast Guard ignore family requests to search for sailors who are overdue? Do you recommend the same for airplanes or hikers out in bad weather?

That doesn't sound very "polite," some may even consider your comment a little "personal."
Again, my points are outlined above.

I have no interest in getting into an argument and your sarcasm does not seem to advance any information or point of view. You don't like my request for polite dialogue with no personal insults, and you feel it is your prerogative to let me know that with belittling sarcasm. Message received.

Again, for the I think third time, I am not making decisions for anyone else. For me, self-sufficiency is one of the most attractive parts of sailing. If someone wants SAR services, by all means, let them request them/make arrangements before leaving for others to request those services on their behalf.

For people who have made the choice not to have an EPIRB, not to send a distress call, not to empower folks on shore to act on their behalf to request help, I don't think SAR response should be automatic.

Have a nice day folks, and enjoy the sailing wherever you are.
__________________
vjm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:36   #355
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 132
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post

Do you know if the USCG budget for SAR has changed in the last 10 years or so?
So has the budget of many good and necessary things.
The budget for blowing stuff up on the other hand is immense.



SAR and border protection should come under the same banner, therefore military in my opinion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milita..._United_States

Whoops, misread that, I thought you were saying the CG budget had been cut.
__________________
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:38   #356
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Morro Bay, CA
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,353
Send a message via Skype™ to SV THIRD DAY
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

The Free handout budget dwarfs the Money spent on the US Military my friend...of course those receiving the free handouts won't give them up and don't like it when you point out that they are "welfare queens"
__________________
Rich Boren Living Aboard in Morro Bay, CA and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:42   #357
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 17,561
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by vjm View Post
. . . For me, self-sufficiency is one of the most attractive parts of sailing. . . .
I think the main point here, a broader and more philosophical one, is that "self-sufficiency" is a fantasy. Or maybe even -- a pose. It smacks of -- hubris.

Of course good seamanship demands that we do what we can to help ourselves, and prevent the case where we have to impose on someone else.

But seamen know that at sea no one is safe from that case where we can't manage without someone else's help. There but for the grace of God go I. That's why we are so superstitious about helping others. No matter how stupid the other is, we always help. We help without hesitation, without judging how the other seaman, got into whatever situation, he got into. That's because we know that no matter how skillful we are, no matter how well prepared we are, we could be the next, to need help.

"Make arrangements in advance, or, tough ****, drown" contradicts everything we believe. It is an arrogant and lubberly idea.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:55   #358
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,254
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I think the main point here, a broader and more philosophical one, is that "self-sufficiency" is a fantasy. Or maybe even -- a pose. It smacks of -- hubris.

Of course good seamanship demands that we do what we can to help ourselves, and prevent the case where we have to impose on someone else.

But seamen know that at sea no one is safe from that case where we can't manage without someone else's help. There but for the grace of God go I. That's why we are so superstitious about helping others. No matter how stupid the other is, we always help. We help without hesitation, without judging how the other seaman, got into whatever situation, he got into. That's because we know that no matter how skillful we are, no matter how well prepared we are, we could be the next, to need help.

"Make arrangements in advance, or, tough ****, drown" contradicts everything we believe. It is an arrogant and lubberly idea.


Very Well Said!
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:57   #359
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Morro Bay, CA
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,353
Send a message via Skype™ to SV THIRD DAY
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

There is always a disconnect between Chat Room Cruisers and Real Cruisers...and here we see it well advertised. DockHead said it well.
__________________
Rich Boren Living Aboard in Morro Bay, CA and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2016, 12:59   #360
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,105
Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I think the main point here, a broader and more philosophical one, is that "self-sufficiency" is a fantasy. Or maybe even -- a pose. It smacks of -- hubris.

Of course good seamanship demands that we do what we can to help ourselves, and prevent the case where we have to impose on someone else.

But seamen know that at sea no one is safe from that case where we can't manage without someone else's help. There but for the grace of God go I. That's why we are so superstitious about helping others. No matter how stupid the other is, we always help. We help without hesitation, without judging how the other seaman, got into whatever situation, he got into. That's because we know that no matter how skillful we are, no matter how well prepared we are, we could be the next, to need help.

"Make arrangements in advance, or, tough ****, drown" contradicts everything we believe. It is an arrogant and lubberly idea.
Very well written and perfectly describes the reality. It also legitimizes requiring all folks going on the water to pass a boating test and have a boating licence. If we are going to go save every fool that screws up, and in doing so put our SAR folks at risk, then everyone needs to be certified as knowledgeable about boating before they can own, rent, lease, or operate a boat regardless of size. Its a car on the water; why should it be treated any different?
__________________

__________________
reed1v is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
kids

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Crew Available: Father/Son combo. Two months open and can share expenses. chrisgreta Crew Archives 12 24-02-2016 15:46
Tribute to a fine gentlemen, father-in-law, and sailor Tatheelrod22 General Sailing Forum 16 08-11-2015 22:39
Catamaran sailor kidnaps his 3 kids Sand crab Multihull Sailboats 22 17-05-2014 11:03
Father Missing Off Madagascar Sad Daughter Cruising News & Events 28 16-03-2013 09:24


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:44.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.