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Old 26-06-2016, 21:48   #301
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
yep, me too. I have a PLB in my ditch bag and my working epirbs are GPS.
Sounds good Rc, though I would argue a PLB is best attached to your lifejacket, that way whenever you are ondeck offshore it is on you. Another option is to make a watchkeepers belt, that the person ondeck always wears, and keep a few essentails in it like PLB and a whistle, torch, knife etc...

I normaly have the epirb in my grab bag near the companionway. I hate the idea of having my arms full in an emergency. My grab has shoulder straps so it can be chucked on my back to leave both hands free.
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Old 26-06-2016, 21:51   #302
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
1) The ocean can be angry.
2) be prepared for the ocean being angry.
3) If you are not prepared, make sure you have a VHF radio ready to roll.
4) If you have no VHF radio, at least have an EPIRB ready to roll.
5) If you have none of the above, stay at the dock I until the wx improves.
6) If the above makes no sense, don't go boating.
Agree with the majority of that but bear in mind that even if the wx looks good it can and will change once you toss off the lines - if you don't have a VHF and/or EPIRB/PLB don't chance it period. I'm blown away at the amount of people at my marina that don't have a functional radio; they're so cheap and will put you in DIRECT contact with SAR on the water which is something a phone won't do.
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Old 26-06-2016, 21:57   #303
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
Sounds good Rc, though I would argue a PLB is best attached to your lifejacket, that way whenever you are ondeck offshore it is on you. Another option is to make a watchkeepers belt, that the person ondeck always wears, and keep a few essentails in it like PLB and a whistle, torch, knife etc...

I normaly have the epirb in my grab bag near the companionway. I hate the idea of having my arms full in an emergency. My grab has shoulder straps so it can be chucked on my back to leave both hands free.
Sorry, I was wrong. I have my newest KTI epirb (green) in the grab bag. I have a ACR Resqlink PLB that I wear in my wet weather jacket on my own or who ever is on watch to wear.

My other KTI epirb is at the Nav table.

Jack and Jude from Banyanda have the belt idea. I like that idea. It will ensure being worn if on watch at night. The other thing I insist on is that during the night no one leaves the cockpit without someone else knowing, even if it means waking someone up. That's regardless of the weather. When the waves come up, then it's latch on in the gangway before stepping out into the cockpit.
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Old 26-06-2016, 22:04   #304
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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I have PLB.

I am never more than 50 miles from a shore in the Med or less in the UK.

If they dont get me in a couple of hours hypothermia will...
We have two of these Gumby suits onboard. And when we did the 100 mile early springtime Maine to Massachusetts crossing in the 22ft open sailboat, we had a couple of them with us along with a cell phone.
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Old 26-06-2016, 23:04   #305
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Not sure why anyone considers an EPIRB to be too expensive to carry. My latest one works out at AU$24.90 (say US$22) per year and it is a GPS one at that. We have three on our yacht, the new one, and two battery expired but still working ones. One of these is in our grab bag, the other in the dinghy. We also have a PLB on each of our lifejackets. Nothing like redundancy.

I would also like to share something that happened to us two weeks ago. At 0030 in the morning, a friend's wife rang me. Her husband is crewing on another friend's cat and should have been in the vicinity of Fraser Island that night. She had received a copy of an SMS message from the third person on the boat (also a friend) via this person's son. The message said something like "450 miles off the coast, taking on water, look after your Mum, I don't regret a thing".

Well, that really woke me up. First, it was physically impossible for them to be that far off the coast as they only left Mooloolaba two days before and were sailing up the coast. Secondly, no way the SMS could have been sent if that far off the coast. We then spent many hours trying to find out where they were. The third person's mobile (cell) was ringing but he did not answer. This shows they were still within range of the coast. However, the other two's phones did not ring. As they have a provider with poorer coverage, it probably only meant they were in an isolated spot.

My wife and I then contact the two volunteer marine rescue bases they would have used and with a lot of help from them, we ascertained that they had safely crossed the Wide Bay Bar on the first day. This also confirmed that they were probably okay and in the protected waters behind Fraser Island.

My mate's wife by this time had contacted the Queensland Police and they ascertained via the phone company that the third person's phone was still being picked up by a tower that indicated they were on the northern or western side of Fraser.

We could do not much more till about dawn when another marine rescue base opened (it did not have an after hours contact). They ended up radioing the boat and made contact. All was well.

What had happened? It seems like the third person was on very heavy pain medication and after consuming a few beers, had some sort of physicotic episode. The other two on the boat knew nothing of the message he had sent nor of the concern we all had.

My point about all this is that even though the message we received seemed to have no chance of being correct, we acted as though it was and immediately contact the relevant rescue authority (the police in Australia have this responsibility) and the volunteers who assist.

If the brother who received the phone call had even just alerted the coast guard to say there "may" be a problem, perhaps the situation would have ended up differently. A very sad case that makes me worry every time I read about people living on boats that are perhaps not in as good condition as they should be due to their economic situation.
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Old 26-06-2016, 23:17   #306
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Hah. I did that once myself, skidded my motorcycle on wet tramcar rails and was nearly cut in half by the tramcar. I was face-forward with arms spread out. I flipped over on my back and the tram missed me by inches. I can still remember the driver's shocked face. I was aged about 25 at the time. I have learned a few things since then.
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Old 26-06-2016, 23:31   #307
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Yes, EPIRBs are mandatory here in Oz for anyone sailing offshore more than a few n-miles. The boat I just bought had a 406 MHz/121.5 MHz epirb/personal rescue beacon, but the battery was missing. I did a check and discovered the law here says it must go back to the manufacturer for exchange. It is illegal for me to add two lithium cells to make a 7v battery for it myself. Cost of the replacement is here $280 AUD; I kid you not. I can buy a new and better PRB for that, one with an inbuilt GPS, which gives a pinpoint location. (Our dollar is worth about 74c USD.)
Yes, we are very much a nanny state, where even pushbike riders cop a fine of several hundred dollars if they fail to wear a helmet.
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Old 27-06-2016, 00:52   #308
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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It is illegal for me to add two lithium cells to make a 7v battery for it myself. Cost of the replacement is here $280 AUD; I kid you not. I can buy a new and better PRB for that, one with an inbuilt GPS, which gives a pinpoint location.
Going through this myself now as well.
Knew the batts were out of date when I bought the boat but thought how much can batteries cost right?
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Old 27-06-2016, 01:01   #309
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I sail in similar conditions down here. The hypothermia can take a like within minutes, 10-15. All depends on how much weight you have on, insulation and all the rest.

Last Thursday a guy jumped off one of our ferries into the 12C water. The search for this guy was called off after miday the next day when Medical advice advised it was not possible for him to be still alive. That's more than 12 hours later.

James Scott back in the 80's survived more than 40 days on the side of a mountain in the Himalayas without food or shelter.

I guess what I'm saying is that people can survive in extradianary circumstances. Well beyond what is expected. Our job is to make those circumstances more beneficial for us by having equipment and experience that gives us the most chance.
Thanks for the comment RC. My take is that the PLB is adequate on my life vest to locate me.
I travel a lot so everything I have has to be carefully weighed and be acceptable to the airlines. A lightweight vest and PLB is OK..

I dont want heavy legislation that makes me have to have certain equipment and that the manufacturers rip us off with ongoing costs...

I do like the PLB...

Legislation not so much..
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Old 27-06-2016, 01:13   #310
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Yes, we are very much a nanny state, where even pushbike riders cop a fine of several hundred dollars if they fail to wear a helmet.
ha, I am not to worried. I think once upon a time seatbelts weren't required and motorcyclists didn't need to wear a helmet... Even before that ships didn't need to carry enough lifeboats or liferafts for everybody. I aussie has the balance about right, though every state has different laws which makes it hard.

The one I really object to is the New Zealand style of legislation that states that any NZ yacht going overseas needs to have a full racing category one certificate. Almost no offshore cruisers would pass without a fair bit of work. I understand the liferaft has to be within three months of its survey, and keel bolts need to have been checked within 10 years. (any kiwis that can confirm these rumors?) And a NA's approval is needed for any major modifications to the vessel.

When I left NZ I registered my yacht as English to aviod a few thousand dollars worth of changes. Eg my stanchions were spaced to suit the bulkheads so they were very strongly tied to the hull. The cat one inspector said they were 6 inches over the maximum spacing and would have to be shifted to an unreinforced part of the deck... Yet ridiculously lightly built racing boats seem to pass! That's the sort of nanny state we need to fight.

NZ tried to enforce manditory safety onspections on overseas yachts (Section 21) fortunately the boycott by international yachts and the international court made them see back off.
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Old 27-06-2016, 01:14   #311
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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I'm sorry, you have completely lost me. How does letting batteries expire become the fault of the legislation
The legislation forces those with an expired EPIRB to purchase a new one. I think boats with an expired EPIRB and limited funds, would be better to purchase a PLB.

The PLB has virtually the same technology as the EPIRB apart from the shorter battery life.

The EPIRB with the expired battery is still very likely to work. A boat with the combination of PLB attached to the skippers lifejacket/harness and an EPIRB (albeit with an expired battery) is safer, I believe, than the boat with two EPIRBs. The real difference is in the case of a rapid emergency like a collision.
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Old 27-06-2016, 01:48   #312
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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We have two of these Gumby suits onboard. And when we did the 100 mile early springtime Maine to Massachusetts crossing in the 22ft open sailboat, we had a couple of them with us along with a cell phone.
Cool do they come in blue

Red isn't really my colour
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Old 27-06-2016, 01:57   #313
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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The legislation forces those with an expired EPIRB to purchase a new one. I think boats with an expired EPIRB and limited funds, would be better to purchase a PLB.

The PLB has virtually the same technology as the EPIRB apart from the shorter battery life.

The EPIRB with the expired battery is still very likely to work. A boat with the combination of PLB attached to the skippers lifejacket/harness and an EPIRB (albeit with an expired battery) is safer, I believe, than the boat with two EPIRBs. The real difference is in the case of a rapid emergency like a collision.
You don't 'have' to purchase a new one. You can replace the batteries

I'm not sure why you would spend that money to do so, but you can do that.

And we are talking ten years of battery
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Old 27-06-2016, 02:08   #314
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Yes, EPIRBs are mandatory here in Oz for anyone sailing offshore more than a few n-miles. The boat I just bought had a 406 MHz/121.5 MHz epirb/personal rescue beacon, but the battery was missing. I did a check and discovered the law here says it must go back to the manufacturer for exchange. It is illegal for me to add two lithium cells to make a 7v battery for it myself. Cost of the replacement is here $280 AUD; I kid you not. I can buy a new and better PRB for that, one with an inbuilt GPS, which gives a pinpoint location. (Our dollar is worth about 74c USD.)
Yes, we are very much a nanny state, where even pushbike riders cop a fine of several hundred dollars if they fail to wear a helmet.
Where does the law say you can't change the batteries yourself?

I personally wouldn't, but where do you get this from?

I guess you can't 'renew' the date without the manafacturer doing it, that's true. But I don't think it's illegal to do it you're self.

Keep in mind that these things will last ten years. That's not expensive.
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Old 27-06-2016, 02:09   #315
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

I have replaced batteries. SAME battery for a small percentage of the factory replacement cost. I have done this with a lot of electronics that make it difficult to get at the battery for commercial reasons.....

If the EPIRB works then no one will check it. If it doesnt then it wont matter because the person will not be found....
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