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Old 26-06-2016, 16:43   #286
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Human Nature being what it is these days.... if someone gets killed by a meteorite today ,,... everyone will be walking around with pots on their heads tomorrow...
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Old 26-06-2016, 16:46   #287
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

or worse, they will want to license walking around and require a 40hr training course on Meteorite Awareness and Sensitivity Training. People have been dying in tragic accidents since...oh..well the beginning of humanity, but now with the invent of social media, chat forums and the 24hr new cycle, you would think that it had never happened before. It's still tragic, sad and horrible...but if there is anything Americans are good at these days, it is Over-Reacting!
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Old 26-06-2016, 16:52   #288
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

For coastal, I believe a SART superior to a PLB.
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Old 26-06-2016, 16:55   #289
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Yeah, a lot of things happen. Just terrible things.
Just recently a friend of mine, who used to talk with him over the fence with his neighbor became aware of how flighty the mother was, and a bit off her kilter. He actually asked someone if they thought he should report to the cops as he was worried about the 2 YO. Not much can be done ahead of time about someone who shouldn't be parenting anyone though. 2 days ago the 2 YO drowned. He's taking it pretty hard.
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Old 26-06-2016, 17:03   #290
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Pretty much water and people mix and don't mix. I am sure everyone here has heard of people that can swim, jump into the water but then do not surface. Usually from a house boat after they were drinking.

Here is just more bad news:



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Old 26-06-2016, 17:48   #291
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfarmer View Post
Human Nature being what it is these days.... if someone gets killed by a meteorite today ,,... everyone will be walking around with pots on their heads tomorrow...
No, that is BS.
Not much you can do protecting your nogging against a meteorite.
Sailing and boating however is pretty old tech and we have all learned from our ancestors eons ago.
No rocket science, no luck or bad luck will determine if you will live or die, no meteorites or angry whales, just a tiny
bit of preparation and a tiny bit of common sense:
1) The ocean can be angry.
2) be prepared for the ocean being angry.
3) If you are not prepared, make sure you have a VHF radio ready to roll.
4) If you have no VHF radio, at least have an EPIRB ready to roll.
5) If you have none of the above, stay at the dock I until the wx improves.
6) If the above makes no sense, don't go boating.
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Old 26-06-2016, 18:51   #292
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Well for the tin foil hat wearers that want to have full protection from meteorites....

I suggest a 2 inch lead liner for their tin foil hat. The liner must fully encapsulate the skull.

Air holes are not allowed.

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Old 26-06-2016, 18:56   #293
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
After a tragedy like this there is often a call for more mandated safety equipment or compulsory certification.

Personally I think the UKs approach of education, rather than legislation, is better.

In terms of the specific issue of the the compulsory EPIRBs in Australia (for offshore), you can put me down as one who thinks there are times when it's not helpful. A simple example will be when the battery in your EPIRB expires. If there was no legislation I would recommend you purchase PLBs for each of your crew (two PLBs are a similar cost to single EPIRB) and attach them to your life jacket/harness.

The battery ratings in the EPIRBs are conservative so this combination would likely still give you a working EPIRB plus you and a crew her would have a PLB (essentially an EPIRB with a slightly shorter battery life) attached to their lifejacket. Lots of redundancy. In the event of sudden sinking (say a collision) or fire, there is a much better chance of still having a mechanism to alert the authorities.

A better and safer option in my view for no more cost, but it does not comply with the law in Australia.
I'm sorry, you have completely lost me. How does letting batteries expire become the fault of the legislation
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Old 26-06-2016, 18:59   #294
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by Snowpetrel View Post
^^ Noelex, I am not 100% happy about PLB's to replace an epirb. There are some significant drawbacks to a PLB such as less battery life (24 vs 48 hrs), they don't need to float rightway up and transmit so they generaly need to be held in position or straped in the correct position on a lifejacket. And they seem to me like they are about the same price range anyway in your average chandlery in australia.

For me I own and carry both, gps models only.
yep, me too. I have a PLB in my ditch bag and my working epirbs are GPS.
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Old 26-06-2016, 19:35   #295
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
. I'm sorry, you have completely lost me. How does letting batteries expire become the fault of the legislation
Welcome to the land of No Common Sense.
Everything is somebody else's fault.
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Old 26-06-2016, 20:21   #296
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

This has touched me deeply. Maybe because of the children lost in this tragedy or maybe because I am becoming more and more conscious of my own mortality as I age. In any event, I will never again cast off my lines and head out to sea without praying and thinking of those who have been lost at sea, especially in the recent past.


Some others come to mind readily, such as the crew of "LOW SPEED CHASE", whose crew apparently made a minor error in judgment and were overwhelmed by unexpected circumstances, realized too late, which normally would have had no fatal consequences. Every piece of necessary safety gear was aboard this modern yacht, which was sailed by an experienced race crew.


The crew of the Schooner "NINA" sailed from Florida across the GOM to the South Pacific successfully, only to be lost in the Tasman Sea. While old, "NINA", was well equipped, by her experienced crew, and had extensive safety gear aboard.


The crew of the "AEGEAN", lost with the entire crew, apparently due to a crew member zooming the GPS out far enough to remove the island in their path, into which they crashed in the night. Again all necessary safety gear present.


The experienced crew of "RULE 62", made a fatal mistake while attempting to enter a pass in the Bahamas during a rage. The yacht was lost and one crew member not recovered.


Apparently gear and experience are not necessarily adequate to suppress mother nature. Each of these happenings, including this most recent one, are the fault of no one, just errors in judgment, while working with available facts. This father did his best, just as those involved in the other mentioned incidents.


Perhaps there is some or total truth to the old saying that, "It is all already written in the book of life, and that mere prayers are too weak to change the course of fixed destiny". "The world beats us all, except for those which it kills", Ernest Hemmingway.


Hopefully we will soon sail to the south in the GOM, and we will remember this family in a silent ceremony, as we cross their apparent track. There, but for the grace of GOD, go I.
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Old 26-06-2016, 20:28   #297
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

CF members.

This thread is a sensitive one as it deals with the loss of life of a family. we would encourage all to maintain that thought.

From this tragedy, we can move on to positive discussion regarding safety equipment, techniques and experience, yet try and refrain from commenting on what was done wrong here simply because until the official report, no one knows the full picture. Some comments made here were just plain not nice and not made with knowledge, just assumptions.

We all learn from each other and I personally would welcome all your experience with regard to sailing safety. I always try to nor be dogmatic or state that my way is the only way, and interact with my fellow sailors and LEARN.

I made this statement regarding one piece of kit I have:
Quote:
I have PLB.

I am never more than 50 miles from a shore in the Med or less in the UK.

If they dont get me in a couple of hours hypothermia will...
Its my view and I welcome your thoughts on it.
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Old 26-06-2016, 20:32   #298
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEOCAT66 View Post
This has touched me deeply. Maybe because of the children lost in this tragedy or maybe because I am becoming more and more conscious of my own mortality as I age. In any event, I will never again cast off my lines and head out to sea without praying and thinking of those who have been lost at sea, especially in the recent past.


Some others come to mind readily, such as the crew of "LOW SPEED CHASE", whose crew apparently made a minor error in judgment and were overwhelmed by unexpected circumstances, realized too late, which normally would have had no fatal consequences. Every piece of necessary safety gear was aboard this modern yacht, which was sailed by an experienced race crew.


The crew of the Schooner "NINA" sailed from Florida across the GOM to the South Pacific successfully, only to be lost in the Tasman Sea. While old, "NINA", was well equipped, by her experienced crew, and had extensive safety gear aboard.


The crew of the "AEGEAN", lost with the entire crew, apparently due to a crew member zooming the GPS out far enough to remove the island in their path, into which they crashed in the night. Again all necessary safety gear present.


The experienced crew of "RULE 62", made a fatal mistake while attempting to enter a pass in the Bahamas during a rage. The yacht was lost and one crew member not recovered.


Apparently gear and experience are not necessarily adequate to suppress mother nature. Each of these happenings, including this most recent one, are the fault of no one, just errors in judgment, while working with available facts. This father did his best, just as those involved in the other mentioned incidents.


Perhaps there is some or total truth to the old saying that, "It is all already written in the book of life, and that mere prayers are too weak to change the course of fixed destiny". "The world beats us all, except for those which it kills", Ernest Hemmingway.


Hopefully we will soon sail to the south in the GOM, and we will remember this family in a silent ceremony, as we cross their apparent track. There, but for the grace of GOD, go I.
Thanks for putting some humanity back in the thread.. all the best..
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Old 26-06-2016, 21:26   #299
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
.
The crew of the "AEGEAN", lost with the entire crew, apparently due to a crew member zooming the GPS out far enough to remove the island in their path, into which they crashed in the night. Again all necessary safety gear present.
All the safety gear in the world is useless if you do not know how to use it:
In the above accident with a loss of the vessel and the crew, it seems human error was in play with a crew member not knowing how to operate a GPS.
Not sure if it was lack of brain, training or common sense, but based on your blurb above, it seems avoidable to say the least.

Quote:
Apparently gear and experience are not necessarily adequate to suppress mother nature. Each of these happenings, including this most recent one, are the fault of no one, just errors in judgment, while working with available facts. This father did his best, just as those involved in the other mentioned incidents.
Hmm, errors in judgment are the fault of no one...?


Quote:
while working with available facts
What facts? Bad weather, bad boat..?
I am curious how some folks analyze or are trying to justify an accident?
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Old 26-06-2016, 22:08   #300
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
I made this statement regarding one piece of kit I have:
Quote:
I have PLB.
I am never more than 50 miles from a shore in the Med or less in the UK.
If they dont get me in a couple of hours hypothermia will...

Its my view and I welcome your thoughts on it. .
I sail in similar conditions down here. The hypothermia can take a like within minutes, 10-15. All depends on how much weight you have on, insulation and all the rest.

Last Thursday a guy jumped off one of our ferries into the 12C water. The search for this guy was called off after miday the next day when Medical advice advised it was not possible for him to be still alive. That's more than 12 hours later.

James Scott back in the 80's survived more than 40 days on the side of a mountain in the Himalayas without food or shelter.

I guess what I'm saying is that people can survive in extradianary circumstances. Well beyond what is expected. Our job is to make those circumstances more beneficial for us by having equipment and experience that gives us the most chance.
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