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Old 26-06-2016, 08:11   #271
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

It is interesting that in my small airplane I am required to have an epirb (elt) but in my small boat I am not. The cost of search and rescue is huge, but the (one of the dangers) danger to SARs crews is greatly reduced by having an epirb. The time they spend searching is often in conditions that are a threat to their lives. I really dislike regulations, but I see the sense in them. Just a thought. _____Grant.
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Old 26-06-2016, 08:19   #272
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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As I tried to imply, it is common sense to have and know how to use safety equipment. The government has done their job in that respect, and are in danger (in the US anyway) of exceeding it.
Sure it is common sense to have and know how to use safety gear, but many people do not have common sense and do stupid things, should they be protected against themselfs, and should others be protected by requirements to carry such gear? This case is a shining example of just that: Not only did the person in charge die, but so did his passengers/crew.

There is a accidents like that every year in Florida and elsewhere: Small boat lost at sea, no radio, no EPIRB, no common sense, people die. You can fix 2 of the 3, but of course still no guarantee of survival, just easier to find the boat.
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Old 26-06-2016, 09:26   #273
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Very broadly, in my opinion, it is the governments place to legislate when ones actions cause harm to others. If by not wearing your seatbelt, you cause someone else harm (real, quantifiable physical harm, though pyschological harm is real enough it is much harder, if not impossible to attach a value to it), then the powers that be should act. Which they have done. In excess.

As I tried to imply, it is common sense to have and know how to use safety equipment. The government has done their job in that respect, and are in danger (in the US anyway) of exceeding it.

Not to get too serious about it, there is some truth behind the 'Darwin Awards'. Why do you think insurance rates for teenage to young 'adult' males are so high? (That is a rhetorical question)
I suppose that if you could show a quantitative relation between a person wearing a seat belt, causing harm to another BECAUSE, he/she didn't wear a seat belt, I would agree the government has the right to protect others ... maybe!

For thousands of years, the population of this eath has increased dramatically in comparison to all the other animals on earth.

As an animal, the humans use(and waste), almost all the resources on earth.

Pragmatically speaking, the humans on earth have increased the population, and will continue to do so until mass extinction of some sort takes place.

With this in mind, I really don't care if others wear, or do not wear seat bets, helmets, life vests or what-have-you ... unless it eventually effects me, either through money spent on search & recover, or unpaid medical bills.

Same with observation cameras ... these cameras, operated by the government, for the purpose of spying, should be outlawed. But, at the same time, I have NO PROBLEM with private citizens using the SAME cameras, on their property, and then offering the camera data to the police on an as-needed basis....

HEY! ... how did we get down this road?
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Old 26-06-2016, 09:40   #274
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

In the end.... men have gone down to the sea with ships for thousand's of years.... respect the ocean for even the best equipped and trained among us can lose their life on the sea
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Old 26-06-2016, 09:42   #275
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

I may have missed it? Has the CG called off the search? A tragic tale.
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Old 26-06-2016, 09:55   #276
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Yes...the CG has called off their search. I still an holding to a glitter of hope that the weekend boating traffic will bump into a teenage boy holding into a cooler.

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Old 26-06-2016, 10:02   #277
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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^^ Noelex, I am not 100% happy about PLB's to replace an epirb. There are some significant drawbacks to a PLB such as less battery life (24 vs 48 hrs), they don't need to float rightway up and transmit so they generaly need to be held in position or straped in the correct position on a lifejacket. And they seem to me like they are about the same price range anyway in your average chandlery in australia.

For me I own and carry both, gps models only.
It's an old debate, and probably no right answer.

I, personally, choose PLB over EPIRB, because unlike an EPIRB, I can keep the PLB on my person at all times. The really big drawback of the EPIRB is getting separated from it in a sudden disaster. Case in point -- that RoRo vessel which sank suddenly in a storm last year in the Bahamas. EPIRBs trapped in the wheelhouse, and no signal ever got out. If you had a PLB and on your person, you wouldn't get caught out without a beacon.

I would have both, but Noelex's point about battery expiration, and cost of keeping multiple devices, kicks in. At this stage, we don't sail more than a couple of days from shore, which is never more than a few hours away from SAR assets, so 48 hours battery life is not really relevant.

YMMV.
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Old 26-06-2016, 10:04   #278
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

I have PLB.

I am never more than 50 miles from a shore in the Med or less in the UK.

If they dont get me in a couple of hours hypothermia will...
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Old 26-06-2016, 10:15   #279
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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I may have missed it? Has the CG called off the search? A tragic tale.
The official search has ended but several private parties are still out there looking for survivors. The investigation continues.
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Old 26-06-2016, 11:31   #280
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Advice from the Dalai Lama . . . . . "Once (a) tragic situation happens, not avoid-- (but) look at more deeply, widely. Many positive, happy things are there if you look (from a) wider perspective. If you look real closely, it appears unbearable. But if you look widely (you see) other positive things there."
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Old 26-06-2016, 13:20   #281
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Advice from the Dalai Lama . . . . . "Once (a) tragic situation happens, not avoid-- (but) look at more deeply, widely. Many positive, happy things are there if you look (from a) wider perspective. If you look real closely, it appears unbearable. But if you look widely (you see) other positive things there."
My short version: "there is an upside to everthing". Sometimes, as suggested, you just have to look broader and deeper to find it.
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Old 26-06-2016, 13:43   #282
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Advice from the Dalai Lama . . . . . "Once (a) tragic situation happens, not avoid-- (but) look at more deeply, widely. Many positive, happy things are there if you look (from a) wider perspective. If you look real closely, it appears unbearable. But if you look widely (you see) other positive things there."
Sounds like the BS one of my sons spouts, from the Dalai Lama. Full of verbs and adjectives. I would have to look real widely to find three kid drowning as having anything positive about it. Gee, someone else may not do it in the future? Sorry if I sound crass, but I can find nothing positive.
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Old 26-06-2016, 14:44   #283
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Surprised by all the EPRIBs talk and none about the lack of any boat other than two kayaks as a way to get off the boat and little about no VHF. This story is so tragic and frustrating. Like was said people been going to sea for many years, but most have ways to get off the boat.
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Old 26-06-2016, 15:08   #284
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Sounds like the BS one of my sons spouts, from the Dalai Lama. Full of verbs and adjectives. I would have to look real widely to find three kid drowning as having anything positive about it. Gee, someone else may not do it in the future? Sorry if I sound crass, but I can find nothing positive.
Its not crass, its real. Its still not clear if this was an "accident" or something else. The DA is spending resources investigating the situation. That is not normally done with a simple accident. So from a wider perspective, maybe we should all assume the goodness in life will overcome all and get on with business. Thus justice becomes a moot point.
One of the purported purposes behind this forum is to help others learn about cruising, in all its manifestations. One thing to learn is caution. Could devote an entire thread to caution. But evidently the powers that be are more of the "leave and forget" persuasion.
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Old 26-06-2016, 15:26   #285
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Hey I know...
Why not just blame it on Rebel Heart and come full circle jerk?
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