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Old 24-06-2016, 20:31   #196
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Sad story. Very sad. Many of the facts are lost with those that died.
What I personally learned to think about from this tragedy is: what is the margin of safety that I demand. We all look at required equipment, but beyond that we look at costs and make choices. One VHF vs two,...EPIRB vs PLB, AIS? the choices go on. I am comfortable with my choices but others would make different choices. We should all be asking ourselves if we are maintaining the margin of safety those aboard our vessels deserve. i do not advocate that our government prescribe these standards further.
Prayer for the family and sobering thoughts for those of us going on the water
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Old 24-06-2016, 20:39   #197
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

The flare - I thought I saw a pic of some of the recovered items from the boat. One of those items was a spent flare I thought. Now I can not find that pic.

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Old 24-06-2016, 20:43   #198
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

taking an injured boat to be repaired is no simple task. i now that. nor is it stress free.
all of our loving desk jockeys and day sailors and beer can racers can spew all you want. until you do what that man was doing you have no clue as to what was occurring. i was fortunate to have the ill winds ahead of me lay down and waters smooth. the stretch the family was sailing gets damn rough and occasionally without much more than a few hours warning. every day on west fla coast between tampa bay and ft myers beach are tboomers which aint bludi fun to sail.
i read in a group in fb that the daughter and father have been found. there have been allusions to an accident i didnt follow, as i hadnt been reading closely their issues.
i also read someones social media words stating they saw a flare and via vhf were told was a training exercise. ok.
sounds like a series of fails. no one can blame anyone. it is done. they are gone. last i read, this evening, the boys have yet to be found, hopefully not dead.
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Old 24-06-2016, 20:52   #199
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by tuffr2 View Post
The flare - I thought I saw a pic of some of the recovered items from the boat. One of those items was a spent flare I thought. Now I can not find that pic.

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Yes, that picture is in one of the links here and was shown on the local news report a night or two ago.

It shows a hand holding a spent flare. Not sure but think was a hand held type. It doesn't show the flare in context with other items found. Not trying to imply anything, just what I recall.
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Old 24-06-2016, 21:21   #200
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

When I switched on the CF this morning, I was saddened to see that in this thread. a lot of dogmatic speculation, 'advice' and comments on the supposed actions of those involved.

As a person involved in the health care of others, I can only work of the facts as presented and not speculative theory as to how someone got in the position they are in... and at some stage, HOW they got there becomes secondary to the results.

Here, no one one quite knows why things happened, only that they did. It has not stopped some of our members speculating as to why and in a couple of cases being quite offensive. Posts have been removed.

There are lessons to be learned obviously, but can only be learned from the facts. When they are known, then a picture of the course of events can be traced and then where errors have been made, they can be assessed and mentally corrected for US and others.

It costs nothing to be nice. It costs nothing to be charitable in our thinking. All the experience in the world cannot replace facts. Better to work from the right premise than speculate and lose your personal credibility.

So for those of you who do did not speculate and offered your genuine condolences, thank you. For those of you who who promoted possible motives or scenarios, get a grip guys. These people are someones family and deserve better respect than that. The truth is right now, no one knows the entire story.....

When someone is dead. They are dead. It a fact. A natural human reaction is to attribute blame. It does not take away the fact.

This is a sad situation. I prefer to think of the love of the family and that life is what it is and sometimes events happen beyond our sphere to deal with them. When we know the facts, we can correct our own thinking in certain matters. But people have died and that is the end result for them.

So please be nice. Be gentle. Be compassionate. Be supportive and dont let your experience or rigidity or dogmatic views overshadow the fact that no matter what happened, its over for some.

For that is all that is.
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Old 24-06-2016, 21:30   #201
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

Fair winds and following seas.
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Old 24-06-2016, 21:50   #202
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Maybe it's time to consider EPIRBs as part of the mandatory equipment list.
I respect and support your freedom to make that choice for yourself.
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Old 24-06-2016, 22:14   #203
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Look at the boat, 29 feet with an outboard.

Talk to me about thru hulls and an anchor versus a $200 item (see that they do come with rebates) on a boat like this, travelling offshore with children on board.

Like I said, most people fitting this families description will spend $200 on chew, drink, eating out, etc, etc....did this family? I can't say...but like many folks who say they never have enough money, they spend a tidy sum in places many don't when funds are short.
Offensive and embarrassing. Can we delete this?
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Old 24-06-2016, 22:33   #204
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

FWIW, I had two Epirbs on board when I got wrecked, One American, and one Australian,
Both registered to me, Did I use them, No,
Both are the type that are actuated by getting wet, Automatically sending a distress signal,
I was on the rocks, Not sinking,

But to give some people an idea on how things change at sea with the weather,

After three days of repairing my vessel, and no sleep, Due to a dragging anchor,
I was pulling up the anchor to go 12 miles to get a new anchor and steering cables as mine were shonky, They were Old ones I found in the locker and were rusted up and I repaired them to get me the 12 miles to port, The ones I had in it had exploded and were useless,

I looked to the west and had a very black cloud moving in, A severe storm was coming,
I am not sailing for 4 or 5 hours thru that with a shonky steering,
MRS on the VHF stated there was a storm coming with winds in excess of 35 knots,
And a small boat warning to not be out there,
fair enough, I will head for cover inside the Island I was moored at,
There is an inlet there, inside an old volcano, It faces south, The storm is from the north west, Perfect safety for me and my vessel,
So I motored around and parked there, in the inlet,
10-00 PM that night, Port Stephens was totally flattened by the storm causing millions of damage, Im glad I wasnt in it,
It had come from the North west, I was parked in dead calm water just off the beach in the inlet,
I will stay here till the storm passes, Being awake for three days, I was past my mental capability to motor up and down behind the Island all night, So the Inlet was the best choice at the time,

My Passenger at the time was looking at the fish with a spotlight in dead calm water and no wind,

At 10 to 4 AM she went to bed, No Wind and still dead calm,

At 4-00 AM she woke me, we were on the rocks and a foot of water inside the boat,

Yes it does happen that quick, and there is nothing you can do about it,

The wind had changed and came up from the south, Channeling straight up the inlet,
Picking my boat up and throwing it onto the rocks, The anchor was bent by 30 Degrees, So it was doing its job,
But two to three metre waves was just too much for it,
I tied the boat to a B-B-Que table on the beach to stop it moving sideways onto the bigger rocks,
After unloading the boat onto the beach with our personal effects, I then went onboard and called the MRS on the VHF and told them I was on the rocks, but not in any danger,
This was some four hours later when I called the MRS, ( Marine Rescue Service)

On the way out across the inside of the volcano on the MRS vessel, The waves were between 6 and 10 Metres high, 20 to 30 feet high,

You wont get waves like that in the Gulf, But crossing the Coral sea, I had waves that stood up vertically at the transom, level with my top spreader,
Which is 12 metres above the water line,

These are waves that sink big ships, If it lands on me, I am Dead, no ifs or butts about it.
50 to 100,000 tons of water crashing down on me, End of story,
Was I in danger, No, Only if it landed or crashed down on me, Then I would be history,
Or swimming in an ocean full of smashed boat,
Fortunately, the boat popped out at the last minute from under it,


The ocean is very powerfull, You can be prepared for the worst, and things will still happen to overpower you,

Even the best prepared boats can still come unstuck in bad weather,
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Old 25-06-2016, 01:11   #205
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

How incredibly sad for them and their family and friends.

I'm a bit slow in picking up on this one. Hadn't realised its occurred. Not even seen anything in the news locally here.
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Old 25-06-2016, 01:41   #206
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
Living on a crap boat at a dock because you are poor is fine.
Taking the same boat offshore without a radio in bad weather is stupid, and deadly, no excuses.
Not sure why anybody is trying to justify the stupidity?
Back in the 1980's we would to take our 19ft O'Day off shore all the time with 4-5 people onboard. No radio, nothing except a compass and chart.

I guess that makes us stupid too.

Weather forecasts change, situations change, people accidentally fall overboard, and things can quickly spiral out of control. Many people who've never really experienced this sort of situation, seem to be experts on this thread.

Just a couple of years ago, I helped a friend deliver his 22ft Santana from Portand, ME to Salem, MA in early April. 120 miles with six foot swells and fog overnight using just a 6hp outboard. We didn't have a radio, just an Ipad in a sandwich bag, an Iphone and some blankets and a couple of life jackets, chart and compass. We thought nothing of it, just like the unfortunate family being discussed.

Yep, I guess I'm stupid too.
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Old 25-06-2016, 03:41   #207
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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.
Yep, I guess I'm stupid too.
This is not about you.
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Old 25-06-2016, 04:52   #208
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

As a solo dad, this keeps tugging at my heart.

Looking at the various pictures of the family, they looked happy. They didn't have much but it looked like they had each other and were happy.

I'll take the positive of that and learn from what happened and put it to use.
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Old 25-06-2016, 04:52   #209
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
taking an injured boat to be repaired is no simple task. i now that. nor is it stress free.
all of our loving desk jockeys and day sailors and beer can racers can spew all you want. until you do what that man was doing you have no clue as to what was occurring. i was fortunate to have the ill winds ahead of me lay down and waters smooth. the stretch the family was sailing gets damn rough and occasionally without much more than a few hours warning. every day on west fla coast between tampa bay and ft myers beach are tboomers which aint bludi fun to sail.
i read in a group in fb that the daughter and father have been found. there have been allusions to an accident i didnt follow, as i hadnt been reading closely their issues.
i also read someones social media words stating they saw a flare and via vhf were told was a training exercise. ok.
sounds like a series of fails. no one can blame anyone. it is done. they are gone. last i read, this evening, the boys have yet to be found, hopefully not dead.
except the Capt could have easily motored down the ICW
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Old 25-06-2016, 05:42   #210
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

watching.

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