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Old 24-06-2016, 13:38   #151
vjm
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Maybe it's time to consider EPIRBs as part of the mandatory equipment list.
I very much hope not.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:39   #152
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

what does it matter to you vjm?
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:46   #153
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Epirbs are compulsory in Australia for off shore,
That is a good requirement. In this guys situation I have a felling it would not have made a difference if he didn't even have a VHF. It is just a sad situation. All of the speculation seems unwarranted.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:47   #154
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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what does it matter to you vjm?
I do not want to be forced to carry an expensive piece of gear I do not want onboard.

I would think concentrating on ensuring all aboard have basic seamanship skills and ensuring the seaworthiness of one's vessel would be more appropriate.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:49   #155
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

you'd think.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:52   #156
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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I do not want to be forced to carry an expensive piece of gear I do not want onboard.

I would think concentrating on ensuring all aboard have basic seamanship skills and ensuring the seaworthiness of one's vessel would be more appropriate.
I can see you don't want it mandated. The rest is rhetoric.
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Old 24-06-2016, 13:59   #157
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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I do not want to be forced to carry an expensive piece of gear I do not want onboard.

I would think concentrating on ensuring all aboard have basic seamanship skills and ensuring the seaworthiness of one's vessel would be more appropriate.
You know when you look at the cost of other mandatory equipment (PFDs, flares, etc) the price of an EPIRB is not too much more. The benefits of having one are huge, not only to the crew but also to the use of rescue resources and rescue risk. EPIRBs are no longer $1000 items but more like $300 items.
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Old 24-06-2016, 14:09   #158
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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You know when you look at the cost of other mandatory equipment (PFDs, flares, etc) the price of an EPIRB is not too much more. The benefits of having one are huge, not only to the crew but also to the use of rescue resources and rescue risk. EPIRBs are no longer $1000 items but more like $300 items.
I definitely appreciate that point of view, and I know how much they cost ($300 is expensive to me) and what they do. I can certainly agree they have saved lives. I also can see that they can encourage a sense of ultimate safety that is unwarranted and can lead to many unseamanlike decisions. Also not very fond of putting rescuers at risk for folks who don't have to be out there.

I am just not a fan for recreational boaters, at any price. I don't think my preference should be legislated, which is why I would strongly prefer not to see legislation making them mandatory. It is kind of amusing that VHF's are not mandatory, which might have been very handy in preventing this situation, but we are talking about epirbs.

In all candor, I absolutely think this kind of legislation is coming, along with boater licenses and perhaps mandatory inspections, to the U.S. Incidents like this add fuel to that fire.
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Old 24-06-2016, 14:20   #159
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

I think we're all agreed that this is a very sad happening, and would rather that the father meant well, and made an unfortunate run to get the boat fixed.

Where I get hung up in considering it is this: on the one hand, the father says the boat is waterworthy but not seaworthy; the neighbor says all the bulkheads were loose; someone says he is an experienced sailor; and I must ask myself why, if the report of faulty bulkheads is correct, would you take the boat on the outside route? Why not stay where a 911 call would get you help? If the guy had a phone, he could have learned the expected weather for the day. We'll never know if he knew the front was coming, if he had looked at the sky and seen pre-frontal clouds the day before...... Still, with a dicey boat, why go outside?

Maybe someone local could fill us in on that, perhaps it would have been much slower, or something. The wallet and phone in the bucket suggest intentionally leaving the boat, perhaps it just began to take on water and disintegrated out from under them.

The daughter, the eldest child, had on a life jacket, and most of us have thought she died of hypothermia and/or drowning. However, we do not, as yet, have any data to support that conclusion.

I am left with the hope that it was an honest error, an attempt to better their lives that went wrong...but it is a hope that is difficult to maintain in the face of reed1v's "dark side" hypothesis, which, though appalling--in the same way that suicide/murder is appalling--may be the correct one.

What a terribly sad event.

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Old 24-06-2016, 14:35   #160
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Epirbs are compulsory in Australia for off shore,
Are they required for coastal cruising, too? 'Cuz that's what he was doing until they got blown "offshore" with the east winds.
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Old 24-06-2016, 14:50   #161
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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...Stuff happens, things can quickly spiral out of control ... I hope they find the boys OK.
Ditto on that
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Old 24-06-2016, 15:02   #162
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by vjm View Post
I definitely appreciate that point of view, and I know how much they cost ($300 is expensive to me) and what they do. I can certainly agree they have saved lives. I also can see that they can encourage a sense of ultimate safety that is unwarranted and can lead to many unseamanlike decisions. Also not very fond of putting rescuers at risk for folks who don't have to be out there.

I am just not a fan for recreational boaters, at any price. I don't think my preference should be legislated, which is why I would strongly prefer not to see legislation making them mandatory. It is kind of amusing that VHF's are not mandatory, which might have been very handy in preventing this situation, but we are talking about epirbs.

In all candor, I absolutely think this kind of legislation is coming, along with boater licenses and perhaps mandatory inspections, to the U.S. Incidents like this add fuel to that fire.
if you do not smoke, drink, paint your boat, put zincs on it, have a cell phone, go to a movie now and then, drink cola, eat prime cut meat over ground pork, etc....etc...then you are right, that $300 is a big deal..if you do any of the above and, much much more....you are kidding yourself.

While I agree it shouldn't be a law...it is just common sense if you go to sea and value your life....
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Old 24-06-2016, 15:09   #163
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
if you do not smoke, drink, paint your boat, put zincs on it, have a cell phone, go to a movie now and then, drink cola, eat prime cut meat over ground pork, etc....etc...then you are right, that $300 is a big deal..if you do any of the above and, much much more....you are kidding yourself.

While I agree it shouldn't be a law...it is just common sense if you go to sea and value your life....
I can not think of a more valuable piece of equipment, if you need it, hopefully never.
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Old 24-06-2016, 15:09   #164
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
if you do not smoke, drink, paint your boat, put zincs on it, have a cell phone, go to a movie now and then, drink cola, eat prime cut meat over ground pork, etc....etc...then you are right, that $300 is a big deal..if you do any of the above and, much much more....you are kidding yourself.

While I agree it shouldn't be a law...it is just common sense if you go to sea and value your life....
$300? $100 or less will get you a simple, cheap Cobra VHF, and from all reports he didn't have even that.

What the heck does someone's diet or going to the movies have to do with boating?

He didn't go to sea, he went down the coast for 60 nm and didn't check the weather reports. Which he coulda and shoulda checked on his phone.
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Old 24-06-2016, 15:19   #165
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Re: Father and his kids missing at sea

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While I agree it shouldn't be a law...it is just common sense if you go to sea and value your life....
I would have never thought I'd say this because I have libertarian leanings but I think it make more sense for EPIRBs to be mandated than PFDs for example. It is not about protecting the individual user - that should be a personal choice (should be common sense but should be your choice - similar for helmet laws.)

It is more about protecting the rescue resources. An EPIRB conserves rescue resources (what if there are 2 or more missing boats at the same time) and more importantly reduces rescuer risk as in the case of foul weather SAR.

Lots of people are looking for information in this case to see "what went wrong", "what could have been done differently". At the top of that list should be an EPIRB as that will trump most other items. It's just sad.
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