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Old 15-01-2012, 05:26   #1
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European Sailing History

First post just to open this thread

So ridiculous to state that the Dutch aided the Barbary states. Don't let government propaganda get it the way of factual history!

Read up on the bombardment of Algiers 1816. A Dutch-English coalition naval force vs the Dey of Algiers.

Wikipeda is a good source... Kinda.

(let me make it clear that I have written considerable parts on Dutch history on the English Wikipedia. But all have been modified by other editors from around the world when my copy wasn't considered accurate enough. You can edit there too )

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 15-01-2012, 05:43   #2
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Re: European sailing history

I have here the complete series of French Naval History by the famous French Naval Historian Charles de La Ronciere " Histoire de la Marine Francaise " - 6 books.
I found it on the fleamarket in Sarlat 20 years ago.

About the Barbary Pirates. One of the most notorious was A dutchman from Haarlem whose nickname "Simon de Danser" shuddered the Mediterranee.
The French decided to buy him off but with little result.
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Old 15-01-2012, 06:50   #3
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Re: European sailing history

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
First post just to open this thread

So ridiculous to state that the Dutch aided the Barbary states. Don't let government propaganda get it the way of factual history!

Read up on the bombardment of Algiers 1816. A Dutch-English coalition naval force vs the Dey of Algiers.


(let me make it clear that I have written considerable parts on Dutch history on the English Wikipedia. But all have been modified by other editors from around the world when my copy wasn't considered accurate enough. You can edit there too )

cheers,
Nick.

Nick, Im not denying the Dutch their history, merely pointing out that it is a fanciful notion to claim that the dutch were in any way allies to the british naval activities. In the main The british and the dutch spent the best part of 300 years attempting to destoy each others navy.

Yes there were small periods of coperation, generally the "enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing", but that does not detract from the premise. In no way could you claim that the Dutch and British were naval allies. ( you mightg as well claim the french were).

As to the 1816 bombardment, first the newly free Dutch nation now had a tiny effective navy compared to previous generations and in fact every European
nation bombarded algiers for example

Bombardment of Algiers (1783) by a Spanish fleet
Bombardment of Algiers (1784) by an allied Spanish, Maltese, Neapolitian, and Portuguese fleet
Bombardment of Algiers (1816) by an Anglo-Dutch fleet

These were marriages of convience and anyway by 1816, the Royal Navy was the pre-eminent naval force ,The assistance from the dutch was not germane to the outcome.

The "renegade" Dutch frigates did play a significant part in the development of the Barbary pirates as it introduced them to deep sea capable ships and crewing techniques. No doubt like many countries histories, unsavoury bits are played down and heroic ones amplified.

Dave
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Old 15-01-2012, 08:20   #4
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Re: European sailing history

Dave,

You clearly missed all the levels of grey that existed between friend and foe in those days. Of course the Dutch and English battled each other, both wanted empires to flourish.

Renegade Dutch ships? Surely you know that every nation of any naval clout had these. But they did not act in name of the state at all, I do not understand how you can bring it like that. The Dutch never supported the Barbary pirates, only the Ottomans did AFAIK.

On the alliance between the Dutch and English: after Cromwell's proposals were rejected by the Dutch earlier, with William of Orange on the throne this started off and it was the Dutch and Brits vs the French then. As citation to study this a bit, here you go, Brit writers in Princeton University published book: Power and Plenty: Trade, War, and the World Economy in the Second Millennium - Ronald Findlay, Kevin H. O'Rourke - Google Books

cheers,
Nick.
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