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Old 28-08-2015, 15:56   #46
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

Spend a month pulling bodies out of trees and debris after one, and you will know for sure you've been in a bad one.

At the three week point, it go so bad, that that MEMA ordered that only people wearing full haz mat gear could continue body recovery. Some guys would throw up so much from what there were seeing and smelling that they had to be IV'd with liquids. I know because 20 of them worked for me. Some of them are still messed up from it.

Was it like that in the one you went through?

When the Tsunamis hit, and I was reading about them and the body recovery, it dawned on me just how much worse it could get, so much more than what we even went through.

We had guys sent in TDY who had been through Hugo and Andrew and they all said they came thinking they would know what they would find. They were all shocked that a hurricane could be so worse, and cause so much more damage, than what they thought was as bad as it got.
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Old 28-08-2015, 16:19   #47
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Jon,

You're apparently saving copies of postings I made on CF several years ago?

That's really kind of.... Weird and creepy. Do you save copies of other members posts too?

Ken
Nah, no need to save anything, the search function on this forum is pretty easy to use... :-)

I simply happen to have a decent memory, and when you mentioned how much more sensible your choice of residence is, I recalled how strange it seemed at the time I originally read those posts, that you almost seemed to be boasting about how dangerous a neighborhood you choose to live in...

As I said, I was simply struck by the Irony, is all...

"I guess you didn't get it..."

;-)
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Old 28-08-2015, 16:20   #48
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

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Spend a month pulling bodies out of trees and debris after one, and you will know for sure you've been in a bad one.

At the three week point, it go so bad, that that MEMA ordered that only people wearing full haz mat gear could continue body recovery. Some guys would throw up so much from what there were seeing and smelling that they had to be IV'd with liquids. I know because 20 of them worked for me. Some of them are still messed up from it.

Was it like that in the one you went through?

When the Tsunamis hit, and I was reading about them and the body recovery, it dawned on me just how much worse it could get, so much more than what we even went through.

We had guys sent in TDY who had been through Hugo and Andrew and they all said they came thinking they would know what they would find. They were all shocked that a hurricane could be so worse, and cause so much more damage, than what they thought was as bad as it got.
If I knew a Katrina, Hugo or Andrew was on its way towards me, I'd have the sense to get out of the way with my family and move inland well before the storm. The rest is just stuff.

Sounds to me like you were picking the bodies of the unfortunates who refused to get out of the way.
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Old 28-08-2015, 16:32   #49
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

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Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
Nah, no need to save anything, the search function on this forum is pretty easy to use... :-)

I simply happen to have a decent memory, and when you mentioned how much more sensible your choice of residence is, I recalled how strange it seemed at the time I originally read those posts, that you almost seemed to be boasting about how dangerous a neighborhood you choose to live in...

As I said, I was simply struck by the Irony, is all...

"I guess you didn't get it..."

;-)
To be honest Jon,

I really don't waste my time using the search mechanism on CF for old historic posts from several years back trying to make a point of sorts.... nor do I take up any space in my grey matter remembering anything about you personally or other members. Actually, I couldn't care any less....

BTW.... I'm living in Italy, on my boat.... You're only 3000 miles off. ;-)

Ken
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Old 28-08-2015, 16:45   #50
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2hullvenus
Major exaggeration.

That hurricane was basically dead when it hit us (im from southern nh).

Tops 60mph in gusts. Sustained was nothing. Barely tropical storm.

I was out riding my atv in it, for fun.
Yeah right.... Sure thing buddy.
Well, if you saw 135 mph sustained where you were, you may wish to contact NOAA, so that they can correct their official record of the storm...

;-)

Quote:
Coastal communities bore the brunt of the storm, with sustained winds between 75 to 100 mph. Peak wind gusts to 125 mph were recorded on Cape Cod in the towns of Brewster and North Truro, as well as in Wethersfield, Connecticut. The highest sustained wind of 100 mph, was recorded in North Truro. Block Island reported sustained winds of 90 mph, with gusts in excess of 105 mph (maximum speed of equipment). Wind gusts to near 100 mph were recorded in Newport and by the Navy Ship Samuel B. Roberts, which was riding out the storm on the east passage between Newport and Jamestown, Rhode Island. Additionally, there were four reports of tornadoes as Bob came ashore. The lowest barometric pressure was recorded by the USS Valdez while in the east passage of Narragansett Bay, with a reading of 28.47 inches.

Hurricane Bob (CAT 2 - August 19, 1991)
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Old 28-08-2015, 16:48   #51
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

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BTW.... I'm living in Italy, on my boat.... You're only 3000 miles off. ;-)

Ken
Glad to hear it, I was under the impression you were only aboard for part of the year...

A much more sensible solution, I'd say, good for you...

;-)
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Old 28-08-2015, 16:52   #52
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

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Glad to hear it, I was under the impression you were only aboard for part of the year...

A much more sensible solution, I'd say, good for you...

;-)
Six months.

Touché.
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Old 28-08-2015, 16:59   #53
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

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...Everyone at work brought in a two day personal supply and was prepared to stay... Until the emergency was over. Why can the folks down south do the same? It's a puzzlement.
Ken, I grew up in Miami and went through some very big hurricanes. That is what it used to be like. When Donna hit us, we did not have power for over 2 weeks. My Mom and I stood in line for dry ice for hours. Of course, everyone's 'frigges and freezers thawed. The whole neighborhood got together and we grilled everything we could (charcoal grills). We all ate pretty good. I had a horse at the time and I literally put a tire tube around his neck, attached line to the tube and hauled huge tree branches off. It was quite a time for us.

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Lots of people survive 12 feet of snow every year in Alaska, and love it. Everyone knows florida is hurricane central. No secret there. I live in Washington and will never see 12 feet of snow or a hurricane. But that is my choice. If you choose to live in a hurricane zone its your decision.
Wellin, do you live near Seattle? If so, you do know that you have a very big active volcano in your backyard. They are kinda messy.

Y'all, is there any place safe? I have traveled the world and lived all over the US and South America. It seemed as if every place has it's troubles and my heart goes out to everyone who has to suffer through them. BTW, I have lived in New Orleans. Living below sea level just isn't natural, IMHO.
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Old 28-08-2015, 17:26   #54
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

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I've never bonded and had a strong attachment to "stuff." Twice in my life now, I've lost all my stuff and had to start over again and acquire new stuff, so I really don't get it.. Each time, we've just moved on and not looked back. Neither of us form emotional bonds to inanimate objects like houses, cars, boats etc. That stated, we have a basement full of stuff I'd like to get rid of.
it is actually quite normal for people to form emotional attachments to 'things'. things are strong memory keys. you can't possibly tell me you don't have any attachment for your childhood family home. or for the old pocket knife your dad treasured, always carried, and used for everything.

i have a chopper i built from the ground up. i designed it and built and designed 85% of all the parts. together, we (the chopper and me) have ridden through rain and storms, snow, twice through flash floods, and hundreds of thousands of miles of road and exploration. you can rest assured that that bike has a deep connection and meaning for me.

people get attached to their sailboats because of shared experience. the boat has been a part of so many rich experiences.

the loss of such items is like being cut off from that part of your lives; from the experiences or people that are connected to them.

i will agree, when you experience a loss (whether it's an object or a person), you just have to get back up and keep going. however, to disparage one of the oldest shared common personality traits of humanity, getting attached to things that have been a meaningful art of your life, is just silly.

after you've ridden your copper through a flash flood, and survived it together, you know what it is to feel connection and love for an 'object' (an object that proved far more trustworthy than most of the people you know...one that saw you to the brink and brought you back from it.)

objects develop a personality. as a sheetmetal fabricator, i could tell i'd picked up my coworker's sheetmetal hammer the minute it was in my hand without even seeing it. they were the same hammer but mine had conformed to me. it fit my and just so. i knew it's particular balance. tools are like that. weapons, boats, cars, and lots of other 'things' are like that. they become yours, as in a part of you. so, you treasure them.

if you truly have never felt that, i feel sorry for you. you have missed out on one of the layers of meaning and connection in life.
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Old 28-08-2015, 17:49   #55
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

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Having lived in Florida during the 2000's, and going through a number of hurricanes, not to mention losing my house to Charleys antics, I well know the anticipatory anxiety that is in the mind of Florida residents right now.

It may or may not happen. The uncertainty of it brings its own issues. Stocking up on food and supplies that places an extra financial burden on people, getting the escape vehicle(s) in a roadworthy condition, checking on family members, preparing the animals, getting wood panels in readiness to board up the house....

I was working emergency shift during Charley, I got a call to assist in a situation near to my home just after the storm. It took us 2 hours to do a run that normally takes 10 minutes, having to remove trees and debris from our path. Once the emergency was stabilised, I walked over to my home. My bedroom was intact. It was the only room still standing. It was the only part upright. A few days later, I got a visit from a FEMA inspector. He took a few details, and a while later I had a cheque to the value of the house and bits and pieces. I checked my bank account and they had also placed a sum of money in there for emergency help.

There was no emotional attachment to the property. Only been in it for a while, no history with it. Families around me had raised their children and built a life. My one neighbour had buried his wife a couple of weeks before the storm, and I saw him just sat on the porch of his own destruction, much deeper than just the loss of property. One day he was not there and I dont know any more than that.

The army set up food camps in the town centre, and some kind person had driven his mobile commercial BBQ rig down from Georgia and was cooking for everyone free of charge. Local guys went out and got wild pigs from surrounding areas to keep him supplied when his deliveries were delayed from up North. Sadly, I have forgotten his name but not the kindness or the hard work he put in for the community.

It took a year to clean up to a pristine condition. Better than pre storm. People rallied and helped each other. But something had gone from their lives.

So when you read of tropical storms or hurricanes, the effect reaches far beyond just the immediacy. It is a much longer period of time that we are talking about. The toll on the psyche and lifes dreams and memories is incalculable.

I also lost my new to me boat. Again a cheque was issued quickly, and I got to watch the remains lifted out of the water. There were few personal possessions aboard. I got off it what I wanted. It was a boat with no history with me. Perhaps a different story if I had used it daily for 10 years or sailed to places.

So i have deep empathy for the Islands in the path of the storm right now. Loss of life and homes have occurred. Until Florida, I had never actually experienced a Hurricane, but had worked a few post storm.

There is a difference in living through one. I hope it is something that most people do not experience.

Postscript. A week after the storm, I was traveling with my then girlfriend and her 2 boys into a town that had not been affected by the Hurricane to a restaurant a few miles away. There was a side street off the 41 with one home remaining out of 6. We remarked how lucky the owner was. As we traveled, the sky SUDDENLY went brown, it was like a sepia photograph tone had hit the world. The air quality started to fluctuate, the A/C seemed to go hot and cold. a low down wind got up and even buffeted the vehicle a little. The Sepia tone got deeper, then the colur changed to ice grey. I had pulled over on the road. Out of nowhere, a twister appeared on the side road with the one house. We watched it gently hover and then head toward the house. It stopped in front of it and for what appeared like an eternity stood still. Slowly it backed off and then headed to the single tree in the yard and covered it. Then the twister disappeared. So had the tree. The skies cleared in minutes and we were left sat there wondering what had just happened.

A number of other vehicles had stopped behind us and witnessed this. One guy I looked at just shook his head in shock and wonder. We all drove off in a subdued mood with a deeper appreciation of nature.
Weavis, thanks for your original post. Sorry it's taken on a life of its own. Gulf and coastal weather is nothing to be underestimated. I spent Wednesday stripping wind age from my boat in anticipation of what could be.

I like the thought of not bonding with anything that flies, floats or f.... Nevermind. Having been thru hurricanes and blizzards I'll pass on both. Having been married and divorced a few times I've had to "begin again" a few times as well. I refer to the experience as "Catch & Release."
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Old 28-08-2015, 18:21   #56
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

Ken for once we agree. New Englanders are great. Vermont is a part of new England right? Don't forget to vote for my favorite New Englander!!
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Old 28-08-2015, 19:34   #57
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

I was in the south during Katrina and the one (not sure of the name of that one) the year after. I flew the last trip in (the year after Katrina) to bring out any of our employees in Pennsicola who wanted out. Funny thing is, the plane was full headed toward the storm and only half or less headed back to ATL. No lack of courage in those southerners enroute to protect family and property. It took a long time to grasp southern culture (15 years, in my case). Not unqualified approval but appreciation. There is a time to be laid back and a time to get on with it. I saw that in every hurricane season. Good luck to all in the path of this one.
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Old 28-08-2015, 21:55   #58
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

It's 10 pm on Friday. I'm melted down.

I'm in Sasser's Marina on Wilmington Island in Savannah Georgia USA.

Last night I rattled through my email and CF, and incidentally checked
National Hurricane Center I was astounded to see Erika with a predicted track going up the east coast of Florida, just offshore, STRAIGHT TOWARD US IN SAVANNAH! The top mark on the track was for Tuesday, just south of Jacksonville. Click on it, and it called for wind of 75 kn with gusts of 90 kn there! And strengthening! and the next mark would be at Savannah, HERE! with WIND OF 85 KN!

I got home at 1 am. The weather radio said for next Monday night and Tuesday, Tropical Storm Conditions in the Offshore Forecast, Tropical Storm Conditions in the Coastal Forecast (that's us), Tropical Storm Conditions in the Local Forecast, and HURRICANE CONDITIONS in the 20 to 60 mile offshore forecast--which could move and the hurricane could slam right into us in Savannah, where the forecast diagrams had it aimed!

Got up this morning early and worked at lashing up the sails on the boom and in the foresail bags. Polished up the anchors, to go up the Savannah River 40 miles to a hurricane hole where there's oxbows and cliffs. Left the VHF on, listening for the Coast Guard's instructions about opening the railway bridge on the Savannah River (they'll open it two days before the storm hits, then lock down all the bridges for evacuation). I don't have much time.

But the weather radio was all screwed up. Something was wrong. It should have been yammering about hurricane all over the place. It didn't mention hurricane at all, except to say offhand to check the NHC advisories. I listened again and again through the day, and finally decided there's a subversive putting up the forecasts. Must be the same one who quit putting up the wind speed predictions in the Extended Forecast...

It's been a tough day.

OK, so this evening I grab my computer and hustle into the tavern for wifi. Boot it, get an orange juice from the bar, enter National Hurricane Center for the bad news and.... THE WEST SIDE!! THE HURRICANE IS GOING UP THE WEST SIDE OF FLORIDA!! IT'S GOING UP THE OTHER SIDE FROM US!! IT'S OVER!! IT'S ALL OVER!! WE'RE OK!! WE'RE OK!

It's all over We're OK!


Good luck to the folks on the Gulf coast.
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Old 28-08-2015, 23:21   #59
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

Greg, thank you for that post. It was like God came and just drowned the city of Jazz. People like to talk shizzle about how bad their storms are. But I think Katrina was the worst in American history. Andrew was a class 5 hurricane with winds believed to have been 165 mph. Over 1 million people were evacuated in the three surrounding counties. Over 25K homes completely destroyed. 17 foot storm surge in harbors. Over 16 billion in insurance claims recorded. But I do know that nothing was comparable to what Katrina did. California has it's earthquakes that can kill dozens of people and flatten overpasses. Nasty. New Englander's can have Northwesters that dump tons of snow, high winds, and freeze damages. Midwestern's tornadoes can wipe small areas out like they had been bombed. But nothing compares to Category 5 Hurricane. Nothing.


So people who live in areas of our country who experience storms that are nasty really just have no idea what a cyclone is like. They have no way to compare what a Northwester is compared to what a Cat 5 is like. I lived through one in Guam as a military brat. I believe the winds were in the 170 mph. I was there in 1969-1971. Too long ago to remember the name. I was scared shizzless. We were in concrete cinderblock houses and they vibrated and shook. Sounded like a hundred women outside our door screaming at the top of their lungs for 8 hours.


So, people...if you haven't been there to know...be humble enough to know that you are blessed not to have experienced the likes of a Katrina or Andrew. Facts are readily available to measure wind, infrastructure loss, claims, life loss, and any other parameter to know whose dog had the nastiest bite. Pray for Floridians and those poor souls in Dominica who are missing and those who died.
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Old 28-08-2015, 23:29   #60
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Re: Erika is a naughty girl.

Sniper great post. I had no idea that kind of thing was done. What a desperate situation...
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