Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-06-2018, 01:19   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 24
engine stop button does not work !!!!

The stop button on my control panel does not work.


I have a betamarine 14.


My thoughts are the solenoid , push button or wiring in between.


Some questions.


I think the solenoid starts and stops the engine ? So if it is the solenoid the engine will not start. The engine starts fine.


Is there a fuse that can affect the stop button ? The control lights on the panel seem to work fine.


Appreciate any help.


jim
__________________

xxhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 04:52   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 1,321
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

According to the Beta parts manual it's an energize to stop solenoid, shouldn't affect the running of the engine. Easy to check; starting from either the solenoid or the switch, with a test light or voltmeter, hold the switch down and check for lighting or proper voltage until you find none (or some, depending on which end you start from). If you have proper voltage at the solenoid, check the ground if it is grounded through the case, if it is not grounded through the case check that the positive is not shorted to the case. You can also check the solenoid operation by powering it with a jumper wire from a known source...
__________________

jimbunyard is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 05:05   #3
Registered User
 
Privilege's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bermuda
Boat: Privilege 435
Posts: 467
Images: 12
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

This kind if thing is a problem on many panels including the Yanmars. The panel wires are so small coming from the panel that after a while they just cannot conduct sufficient power to activate the soleniod, start motor ...whatever. To see if this is the problem, take a wire which is connected to 12v. Connect the + and - to the stop solenoid. My guess is that you'll find that it will stop straight away. If it does, your wires from the panel is the problem.
Privilege is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 06:36   #4
Registered User
 
Hartleyg's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Atlantic Ocean
Boat: Tayana 48DS 48'
Posts: 77
Images: 4
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

The solenoid pulls a mechanical lever or shaft that cuts the fuel flow from the injector pump. A diesel will start by rotating the crankshaft (which runs the injector pump) and continue to run until the fuel is cut off by the action of the solenoid. On some engines, there is also a pull-knob or hand lever to do the same thing. The "ignition switch" on diesel engines doesn't actually affect the engine directly, but rather turns the various accessories on & off - such as the alternator, starter, oil-pressure buzzer & gauge, etc. -AND the shut-off solenoid. If you shut off the key while the engine is running, the button won't stop it

Assuming you've gotten it stopped, you should be able to see the solenoid moving the lever or shaft when the button is pressed (and the switch "on") - if it isn't, the electrical steps listed by others here will tell you the problem - if the solenoid IS moving, then the problem is the valve (usually in the injector pump) - unfortunately a much more expensive repair.



Hartley
S/V Atsa
Hartleyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 09:21   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bellingham, WA
Boat: Bruce Roberts 44' Steel Mauritius
Posts: 662
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

You should pick up a book on diesel mechanics. Nigel Calder has a good one. Either learn the basics or hire someone who knows them.
We all go through this learning curve if we want to do it ourselves.
Everything I know is covered above.
Mithril Bham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 09:23   #6
Registered User
 
michaelratinter's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Reno / Bodega Harbor
Boat: Bruce Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 227
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

I had this happen when I turned off the 'ignition' switch while the engine was still running. The solenoid is powered by 12v through the ignition switch.
__________________
Rick
S/V Blind Faith
Bodega Bay, CA USA
michaelratinter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 09:26   #7
Registered User
 
wrwakefield's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cruising Southeast Alaska for now...
Boat: Nauticat 43
Posts: 1,005
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

I had that happen a couple of years ago. [Not on a Beta engine, but same principle.]

It ends up that the solenoid was activating, but the lock nut on the connecting linkage [threaded rod into long threaded tube- for length adjustment] came loose and the linkage 'self adjusted' [likely due to engine vibration] and became too long to fully shut off the fuel when the solenoid was activated. That was an easy determination and fix once I observed it in action.

In retrospect, I'm glad it didn't happen the other way around and tighten up enough to and shut down the engine unexpectedly... I suspect that would have taken me much longer to troubleshoot [and likely after much frustration chasing down the usual engine died suspects...]

Good luck sussing out your issue.

Cheers! Bill
__________________
SV Denali Rose

Short on opinions; focused on research, facts & experience [yours and ours...]
wrwakefield is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 09:39   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Green cove springs
Boat: Freedom 45
Posts: 76
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

I have a relay in mine which I replaced and it is still not working
seaman-lew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 09:46   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: East Coast Florida
Boat: Chris Craft 38 Commander 1965
Posts: 177
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

Many diesels have two separate solenoids (or three like mine) a Start Solenoid, a Run Solenoid, and a Shutoff Solenoid.
The Start energizes the starter motor when the Keyswitch is turned to "Start".
Upon release of the Keyswitch the key moves to the Run or On position and keeps power supplied to the Run Solenoid - usually to run engine accessories. The Stop solenoid can be either one that is constantly energized and continually keeps the Shutoff lever to the fuel in the open position or the opposite. Usually when the Shutoff is normally off there is a switch or button that needs to be pressed to power on the Shutoff Solenoid and turn off the engine.

My Detroits have the constantly On type and just tuning off the key shuts off the engine. I also have a set of Start and Stop Buttons on the Bridge to allow emergency Stops and Starts since the boat was originally set up with only one set of keys at the lower station.
Squanderbucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 09:55   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: East Coast Florida
Boat: Chris Craft 38 Commander 1965
Posts: 177
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

Some engines especially larger ones the Shutoff Solenoid can require quite a bit of current draw. Also, that is why there is a solenoid between the key and the Starter Contactor( solenoid on the Starter).

When setting up my boat the keyswitch does not wire directly to any motor or working solenoid but is connected to intermediary solenoids that send the Full Current or Amperage to the desired device. This keeps high loads off the keyswitch.
Squanderbucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 10:05   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Langley, WA
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 353
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

OK, You say it is not working. Can you hear the stop solenoid when you press the stop button? On my Beta 50 you can activate the stop button even if the engine is not running.


If you can't hear the solenoid pull in it is either the solenoid itself, the stop button or the wiring.



You can do the diagnosis without the engine running. With a simple multimeter start at the wires to the solenoid on the engine. Check for voltage with someone pushing the stop button and work from there. Alternatively, you can try to power the solenoid with 12 volts directly to test it. There are push together type connectors right at the solenoid.
stormalong is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 14:22   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Boat: None at present--between vessels. Ex Piver Loadstar 12.5 metres
Posts: 700
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

It probably does work=---but you have to stop the engine BEFORE you turn off the key. It is a diesel and has no ignition circuit. Turning off the key only stops the stop solenoid from shutting off the fuel supply--which is why your engine keeps running. The stop button does not work, because when you turned off the key--you just de-energised it. The solenoid will remain energised by the engine alternator while the engine is running, and turning off the key while it is running does very little. it just stops the alternator from draining the battery via the panel lights, engine alarm monitoring circuits and instruments....


If pushing the button before turning off the key does not fix it--then you have the ignition switch incorrectly wired, or your stop button is not wired or not wired correctly.


There should be a stop button to break the circuit from the battery to the solenoid, (or to short out the solenoid momentarily) . The circuit breaking type is situated between the battery and the ignition switch start and run terminals. I prefer the ones where pushing the button opens the solenoid circuit. A slightly more expensive button, but I think a better way of doing it than simply short circuiting the solenoid windings.
.
Mike Banks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 15:03   #13
Registered User
 
flymike's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Conroe Texas
Boat: Kha Shing (King) 40 sundeck
Posts: 19
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

I had the same problem on one of my Volvo TAMD-40Bs. The solenoid to shut off the fuel didn't work, but there's a little manual switch on the fuel control unit that does the trick. I got all excited and asked my mechanic to change the solenoids on both motors. He couldn't (or didn't want to) find the parts.
Problem never came back though and it's been four years . . .
flymike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 17:31   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Langley, WA
Boat: Nordic 44
Posts: 353
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Banks View Post
It probably does work=---but you have to stop the engine BEFORE you turn off the key. It is a diesel and has no ignition circuit. Turning off the key only stops the stop solenoid from shutting off the fuel supply--which is why your engine keeps running. The stop button does not work, because when you turned off the key--you just de-energised it. The solenoid will remain energised by the engine alternator while the engine is running, and turning off the key while it is running does very little. it just stops the alternator from draining the battery via the panel lights, engine alarm monitoring circuits and instruments....


If pushing the button before turning off the key does not fix it--then you have the ignition switch incorrectly wired, or your stop button is not wired or not wired correctly.


There should be a stop button to break the circuit from the battery to the solenoid, (or to short out the solenoid momentarily) . The circuit breaking type is situated between the battery and the ignition switch start and run terminals. I prefer the ones where pushing the button opens the solenoid circuit. A slightly more expensive button, but I think a better way of doing it than simply short circuiting the solenoid windings.
.



That is not how Beta Marine wires their stop solenoid. It is usable regardless of the keyswitch position.


I know of no engine that requires a solenoid to remain energized for the engine to run. I suppose someone could design what you are suggesting but it would not make sense unless you wanted to stop the engine the way you would stop a gas engine.



There is definitely no solenoid energized to keep a Beta Marine engine running and even if there were no engineer would short circuit said solenoid to de-energize it. That would be a direct short circuit which would blow a fuse or worse, melt the switch and/or wiring if it wasn't fused.
stormalong is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2018, 22:48   #15
Registered User
 
Oceanride007's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Near Cairns, preparing for travelling North.
Boat: Custom Perry Passport 41, steel
Posts: 373
Re: engine stop button does not work !!!!

If the electrics check out fine. Have a look at the solenoid shaft it may have got rusty (mine did). Haven't had to use the manual S/D since (its a button on same shaft, mine was anyway.
__________________

__________________
Oceanrider.
"The floggings will continue until morale improves"
Oceanride007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stop button on mechanical watch thalassobiote Navigation 18 01-11-2017 00:11
HOW DOES YANMAR INST PANEL STOP BUTTON WORK? knot smart Engines and Propulsion Systems 9 10-05-2017 13:43
Engine STOP button won't stop diesel engine SailingDownhill Marine Electronics 28 29-10-2016 08:24
9.9Hp Yamaha Outboard does not stop... Franziska Engines and Propulsion Systems 7 16-04-2015 09:17
What islands to stop at and what islands not to stop at that is the question?Carib- Ram Atlantic & the Caribbean 11 21-05-2012 17:57



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.