Effects of Global Warming ??

[Kache Walk]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Yes and we could stand on the mountain top and shame them...

THAT made me laugh.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Tar34

I'm listening. You have the high ground of certainty. Now please, without dodging the issue, what do you proscribe as possible solutions? Your defensiveness belies a certain hesitancy to tell us what you really think which in a way is a little dishonest. You, with all the science on your side, come empty in the possible solution department. Interesting.

Again, that's a misdirection. I haven't got a nice neat solution for you, so my assertions about the problem must therefore be invalid.

I do have a solution, as it happens. (no. not really.)

I only know there's no moving forward if people pretend that the evidence isn't there and blindly accept that some noisy pundits are better-informed than our subject-matter experts.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Not because there is nothing we CAN do (which is looking increasingly true) but because there is nothing we WILL do.

"Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, And Nobody"

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.

Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.

Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.

Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done

[Teeto]

Originally Posted by hpeer

A few years ago I kinda tried really, really hard to make a difference. I had a pretty receptive audience. A bunch of well educated folks.

They were willing enough to stand around and cluck their tongues

I burned through a few thousand dollars in my efforts, to no avail. It never amounted to anyone DOING anything. Nada.

ThUS I have become pretty certain that humanity is gonna run right off the cliff, just like Wiley Coyote.

Not because there is nothing we CAN do (which is looking increasingly true) but because there is nothing we WILL do.

Relax a bit. Latest news from the Climate Science brigade is that there has been no warming for 17 years. Focus on things we can affect like pollution and poverty. The money would be better spent.

[DeepFrz]

Sabbatical II, I really do see a difference, not just locally but globally in the number and severity of storms. Also it has warmed a great deal around the area where I live. As someone said, it is easier to see in the colder climates. We no longer get the bone chilling cold temps. we used to see. Summers are wetter or drier, not at all the predictable summers we used to have. I have seen many changes to the land mass, most notable, deforestation. I'm afraid we have just witnessed the beginning of deforestation of the boreal forest as now the mountain pine beetle is spreading across the western half of the continent taking out up to 50% of the commercial forest as it goes. What held the mountain pine beetle in check was the cold but as the country warms (which is a huge part of NA) the mountain pine beetle has free reign. I think it was less than 15 years ago that it first crossed the mountain ranges to the west.

Canadian Forest Service : The threat of mountain pine beetle to Canada

Some of the older skippers in the Vendee Globe have said that the climb up the Atlantic was the worst they had ever seen. Not necessarily because of "bad" weather but because the winds were not predictable and the weather charts they received were most often wrong.

Much of this is of course anecdotal except for the MPB.

Edit: Add: I just noted that it was the massive outbreak in 2006 that has made the biggest difference in the MPB. I remember a news article where a farmer was milking his cows and he thought it was raining but it was the MPB being blown over the Rockies in a strong wind.

[ArtM]

Originally Posted by Teeto

Relax a bit. Latest news from the Climate Science brigade is that there has been no warming for 17 years. Focus on things we can affect like pollution and poverty. The money would be better spent.

I would like to work on the poverty problem, if anyone's got any leads where I can go to volunteer.

[Tar34]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Again, that's a misdirection. I haven't got a nice neat solution for you, so my assertions about the problem must therefore be invalid.

I do have a solution, as it happens. (no. not really.)

I only know there's no moving forward if people pretend that the evidence isn't there and blindly accept that some noisy pundits are better-informed than our subject-matter experts.

You make too many assumptions. And your absent minded Quote
"I do have a solution, as it happens. (no. not really.)" is not unlike someone who wishes to tell us what he really thinks but dares not. You, so certain we must do "something", so certain of the cause of our predicament but so hesitant point to possible solutions. After all the real science you consume and the literature which points you too the science, you haven't a thought at what might steer us away from calamity? Well that is the rub isn't it. You dare not betray your hypocrisy.

[downunder]

Pakistan, Bangladesh for starters.

[Tar34]

Originally Posted by ArtM

I would like to work on the poverty problem, if anyone's got any leads where I can go to volunteer.

Not sure if the Climate crowd is interested in giving the poor an equal chance at pursuing the middle class lifestyle. Obvious conflict of interest.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Tar34

You make too many assumptions. And your absent minded Quote
"I do have a solution, as it happens. (no. not really.)" is not unlike someone who wishes to tell us what he really thinks but dares not. You, so certain we must do "something", so certain of the cause of our predicament but so hesitant point to possible solutions. After all the real science you consume and the literature which points you too the science, you haven't a thought at what might steer us away from calamity? Well that is the rub isn't it. You dare not betray your hypocrisy.

Astounding, the lengths you're going to, to avoid discussing the reality of the problem. Why?

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by Teeto

Relax a bit. Latest news from the Climate Science brigade is that there has been no warming for 17 years.

Sorry Teeto, as I stated above, guess you missed it, the Brit Met office has called that bit a miss representation of their reports. They put out a press release about it.

I don't want to get into trying to exchange data to prove one point or another, there is far too much out there for anyone who cares to read and research a bit.

I have, the evidence is overwhelming.

Look, till the very end RJR et al tried to say there was no connection between smoking and cancer. Those who wished to believe that did. It is the same now. But if you wish to smoke, that is your business. But I quit.

Focus on things we can affect like pollution and poverty. The money would be better spent.

I can get behind the idea of focusing on those things we can effect, although pollution and poverty are not two of them. Unless you are talking about cleaning up your personal space and getting out of debt.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Sabbatical II, I really do see a difference, not just locally but globally in the number and severity of storms. Also it has warmed a great deal around the area where I live. As someone said, it is easier to see in the colder climates.

That may have been me. I was quite stunned by the reports I heard, and the general acceptance of climate change as I went North. And not that far North either.

Just to share one..........at Shelborne, NS they used to cut stone blocks across the harbour in the summer. Then in the winter they would use oxen to haul the blocks across to be used in foundations. Now the harbour is essentially ice free.

Or maybe two......in Harrington Harbour, Quebeck (an island community) they have no wood for fires. They go inland during the winter, over the ice to cut wood and drag it out. Now that is getting real iffy, the ice is not sufficient to do it safely or for as long. At least one guy told me that he has taken to cutting in the summer and rafting the wood out with his boat. But he has to face the black flies to do that. Not a small price.

I also mentioned reading some reports of folks sailing through the Straits of Belle Isle in mid to late July, and getting froze in and not able to make landfall in Labrador because of the ice. That was around the turn of the century, uh 1900 that is. I went through in mid June, had a few bergs, the ice line was over a hundred miles North.

It just goes on and on. All one has to do is to look at the Canadian Ice Service historical data to see.

Here is a snipit, I hope.

Results

Blue bar graph shows falling trend over years.


The one on the right shows the Departure From Normal - for today.

[SaucySailoress]

My dear, sweet fellow sailors,

I have deleted a few not so sweet posts in their entirety, and would like to suggest that you all refrain from mud-slinging, name calling, tongue dangling and other tiresome juvenile behaviours. We like to maintain a cheerful, positive and helpful atmosphere here. It's in the rules, which I am absolutely sure you have read. If not, I totally recommend them, they're an awesome read. Especially the one in red.

[Reefmagnet]

Wow this thread really took on a life of it's own! Wasted about 1kg of CO2 catching up from yesterday.

Anyway, I've drawn the conclusion that this can be the only answer: Go buy this video presentation, study it then destroy all vestiges of your 21st century life and use the knowledge you have gained wisely


Seriously, the Earth is 4500 000 000 years old, in which life of a reasonably complex form has survived for the past 600 000 000 years. In that time there has been something like 3 major extinction events, yet right now we can look out of the window and see that the end result really hasn't been all that bad. The Earth hasn't gone all Venus on us, so let's give this ol' planet some credit that it is tolerant to climate change within limits and isn't really likely to experience some odd thermal runaway condition because we've thrown an extra few hundred parts per million of CO2 into the atmosphere in the last 150 years. In fact, I'd be much more concerned about global cooling, which seems to be the direction the earth tends to suffer climate runaway in. You can talk about warmer winters, more storms, wetter summers yada yada yada all you want but I can personally say I would be much more fearful of an encroaching ice age then a warm period. An ice age would absolutely devastate modern humanity, I have no doubts about that.

Anyway, most climate change arguments come across to me as being limited to the last 150 years or so - which excludes anomalies like the "little ice age" and the "medieval warm period" (and what's the bet the Northwest Passage was open then?). It might interest some to know that we are currently enjoying one of the lowest levels of atmospheric CO2 since complex life evolved. Check out this graph, which is not sourced from a climatology site but rather a palaeontology site:

(Source: )

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by SaucySailoress

My dear, sweet fellow sailors,

I have deleted a few not so sweet posts in their entirety, and would like to suggest that you all refrain from mud-slinging, name calling, tongue dangling and other tiresome juvenile behaviours. We like to maintain a cheerful, positive and helpful atmosphere here. It's in the rules, which I am absolutely sure you have read. If not, I totally recommend them, they're an awesome read. Especially the one in red.

Um that ship sailed when CF permitted this thread to exist. Just sayin'.