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bobsadler · 26-02-2013, 18:15

Fresh from "ChooChoo" Pachuri (the scam-meister himself): No global warming for 17 years

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**hpeer** · 26-02-2013, 18:39

Ok, I chased that back. I'll skip the intermediate steps and get to the core.

Quote:

Met Office in the Media: 14 October 2012

An article by David Rose appears today in the Mail on Sunday under the title: ‘Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released… and here is the chart to prove it’

It is the second article Mr Rose has written which contains some misleading information, after he wrote an article earlier this year on the same theme – you see our response to that one here.

Met Office in the Media: 14 October 2012 | Met Office News Blog

I can find no other link re the UN Climate Chief other than that one very brief non-attributed bit.

goboatingnow · 26-02-2013, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpeer

Oy vey! Such a mess, where to start?

First I thank our Moderate Gods for allowing this thread existence.

Clearly the single largest problem humanity faces is over population. I have thought long and hard on that, listened to the arguments, and concluded that there is no solution we will actually do. Nature will impose limits and solutions.

Those solutions may come in various forms and combinations. I tend to think global financial collapse will get here first. But resource depletion, with water as a leadeing contender, may be felt first. Either one could trigger massive civil unrest. In the end we may not figure out the proximate cause of our demise, as if it mattered.

Climate change is sorta like the slow heavy weight winding up for the knockout punch.

Really it matters little who believes what for collectively we are paralyzed to meaningful action.

INDIVIDUALLY, on the other hand, one can do much. Having a sailboat gives you certain flexibility of movement and options denied most. No guarantees but it improves your odds. As a sailor you are more likely to have good survival skills simply because you are the kind of person who will do things with their hands and head, more than average. You have some greater awareness of natural systems and are attuned to watching the weather. You are more individually self reliant. These are all positives for your personal survival.

But beyond that you have found a way to be connected and an activity to enjoy. Which brings its own meaning to life, and you have a built in community, which is good for mental health.

Anyone on this board would be hard pressed to have a more pessimistic view of the future than I. I do believe that we have passed serious, if not fatal, natural tipping points. Yet I need a way to carry on in the face off uncertainty. But isn't that what humanity has done for millennia?

I only seek to inform, and thus help, those few who may have an open mind. I heard a rumor that such a fellow was seen at a West Marine in Miami not three weeks ago.

My mind is fairly made up on these subjects, thus I stand here a self proclaimed hypocrit. But a polite one, I hope.

Carry on.

"Nature will impose limits and solutions "

The earth is a symbiotic balance , it is not an active stabilisation mechanism , hence it is fanciful to suggest somehow we are in a control loop . Furthermore our effect on that balance is increasing larger and has reached the point arguably where the system cannot accommodate or recover. Hence whatever outcome will be decided by an " out of balance " action. In that there is little agreement as to what might happen , ranging from minor effects to cataclysmic ones , all within the range of the current models.

" global financial collapse"

Money is only a way of keeping track of trade, since we will always make things and " buy" things and eat and produce or capture food , there will always be a financial system, it may wobble and teeter tooter but its only a way of keeping count.

Humans are not prone to," massive " civil unrest. They are in fact the ultimate adapters, that has been the key to their survival. Hence while you could have local unrest. Most societies accept the situation , work out collectively how to survive and get on with living.

Of you think having a sailboat in any way gives you a leg up in some sort of Armageddon , I'd think again, its a machine and a 21st century one in the main. The best way to survive severe upset is to form communities and rebuild not sail away. You need friends. The US wasn't settled by individuals wandering around , it was built around communities helping each other.

Whether we have passed natural tipping points is a debate , in fact no " tipping points" have been identified, they tend to be the language of sensationalists. ( remember peak oil ) what we are seeing is a continuous and increasing effect of mans influence on the natural balance . What's not clear is the future effect of such influence.

Dave

Bash · 26-02-2013, 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

We don't have nuclear generators in Australia but it is my understanding if building power generators today is that Nuclear is cheaper than coal and the only reason we have wind and solar is via subsidies to encourage.

Coal fired generators are not subsidized here.

Take a look at how much coal Australia, the world's leading exporter of coal, exports to Asia: Exports

CarlF · 26-02-2013, 19:22

Far earlier in this thread, someone from Massachusetts claimed that they didn't see any change. Well, they aren't paying attention. Boston's had just under 12" sea level rise since 1920. Worse, the rate seems to be accelerating. (see chart). The chart is fact not opinion.

This offers a "good news/bad news" future for those of us who sail in New England:

a) We won't run aground in the same places

b) We're going to need new marinas, roads, coastal towns - oh, and much of Boston, Portsmouth, Portland, and Providence.

I don't claim to know why the sea level is rising. Maybe it has nothing to do with climate change - man made, cycle made, or God made.

But while we're having this stupid argument the sea is going up. This seems like a really good time to try something. I don't want to have to tell my grandkids that Paul Revere's house is underwater because we sat on our hands in 2013.

The scientists suggest reducing CO2 emissions would help. OK. Any other ideas?

As the old saying goes "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"

CatInHand · 26-02-2013, 19:34

NOAA has a great site too. I'll post a link but I think I need magic moderator dust for you to be able to see it.

CatInHand · 26-02-2013, 19:34

Sea Levels Online - Mean Sea Level Trend

hey! It worked!

ArtM · 26-02-2013, 19:38

There are many other ideas. For example, population reduction is already in effect throughout much of the world. With a bit of luck, decreasing populations may lead to a bit of reforestation. That might bring some of the terrestial water back on land and out of the oceans. Then, we will all be on the internet having stupid arguments about the meaning of the 12" decline in water levels in the San Francisco bay.

I think green tech is a good idea regardless of whether there is any "real" benefit. I mean, (a) what else is highly technologically advanced society of super-intelligent beings going to do with all their newly gained free time (now that they are finally growing weary of first person shooters and Facebook accounts), and (b) I just feel like this is one of those "it probably won't make things worse, and maybe it will help" ideas

DeepFrz · 26-02-2013, 19:42

Quote:

There are many other ideas. For example, population reduction is already in effect throughout much of the world.

The only thing that has changed is the RATE of INCREASE has been reduced slightly. Population continues to grow at an alarming rate.

World Population Clock: 7 Billion People - Worldometers
US & World Population Clock - U.S. Census Bureau

ArtM · 26-02-2013, 19:48

Good news, the water levels are dropping in Alaska and Guam. It seems that some of the water has simply decided to move to New England.

http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/slt...?stnid=9453220

ArtM · 26-02-2013, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

The only thing that has changed is the RATE of INCREASE has been reduced slightly. Population continues to grow at an alarming rate.

World Population Clock: 7 Billion People - Worldometers
US & World Population Clock - U.S. Census Bureau

Globally, that's true, but there is actual depopulation among many of the industrialized nations, and it is likely to accelerate. Further, the non-industrial world is expected to follow suit in a few generations.

Anyone ever wonder what the Official Government Policy on Mexican immigration was to ignore federal immigration law for so many years? Or why so many European and North American countries are suddenly eager to take in as many new highly educated taxpayers as possible?

goboatingnow · 26-02-2013, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtM

Globally, that's true, but there is actual depopulation among many of the industrialized nations, and it is likely to accelerate. Further, the non-industrial world is expected to follow suit in a few generations.

Anyone ever wonder what the Official Government Policy on Mexican immigration was to ignore federal immigration law for so many years? Or why so many European and North American countries are suddenly eager to take in as many new highly educated taxpayers as possible?

I've not seen any evidence of that in Europe in any meaningful way , with unemployment running at 14 percent and upwards of 25 percent for the under 25s , the onus in Europe is to get their own working first.

Dave

ArtM · 26-02-2013, 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I've not seen any evidence of that in Europe in any meaningful way , with unemployment running at 14 percent and upwards of 25 percent for the under 25s , the onus in Europe is to get their own working first.

Dave

If you're referring to the European Riveria of Spain, Italy, and Greece, I've been there... it's not their "own" people who are trying to get work.

Anyway, I believe that the 25% unemployment probably will be quickly solved by reducing the work-week by 25%. We are suffering from excess productivity as we arrive at the end of the age that was designed from the start to allow us to be less productive.