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Old 26-02-2013, 13:53   #76
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
Don't look here
Ah!!! Global climatic sameness means that certain regions...the Artic for example, can undergo localized climatic perturbations where warming reinforces the global climatic sameness.

Remember the Vikings lived and farmed on Greenland for 500 years before it got too cold.
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Old 26-02-2013, 13:56   #77
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

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So "english" has been put on 97% of climate scientists, enough that they are making claims that are scientifically unsupportable.

Right.

Cos we know that corporations wouldn't ever mislead us, like scientists would.
Lake-E, if science were so cut and dried we wouldn't be having this discussion would we?
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:01   #78
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

For those interested in recent research here is a longish video from Dr. Jennifer Francis (Rutgers) on climate, Arctic sea ice loss, and the effects of the latter on the former.

This should be of real interest to those of you interested in meterology. It has particular interest for those seeking to do a trans-Atlantic for she talks extensively about how the wind patterns are changing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=xugAC7XGosM

She appears to be giving a lecture to a bunch of TV news guys. She does an overview of the situation and the interaction between climate change and weather.

She then goes into a long explanation of how the change in arctic sea ice is disturbing the Rosby waves. Rosby wave (AFAICT) are the variations in the Jet Stream. They are tending to get stuck in weird shapes, giving us prolonged periods of odd weather.

Not related to the Southern Hemisphere, but she does touch upon the change in Antarctic sea ice.

Nearly two hours.

In the early parts she makes some interesting points about sensible heat vs heat load vs CO2 vs time.
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:04   #79
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Can anyone, global warming sceptic or not, possibly think that we, as a species, are not on the brink of a self induced catastrophy? Nearly 7 billion people on the planet and rising fast. Im very sorry to say to the sceptics that it wont be long before the images of Africa on your TV screen will be available freeview in your street. The West, and I am 100% responsible as anyone else, has been too greedy for too long. Its a house of cards folks.
Im actually quite unconcerned about global warming. I think the chances of society as we know it still going strong in 30 years time, when the greens say things will get nasty, is so slim as to be negligable. Still... You gotta laugh! :-)
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:08   #80
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

I really hope this thread does not get locked.

I know that there are some who take the topic in funny directions against policy, but we are talking about weather and the weather has a big role in our experiences.

I do ask, nicely, that all play nice so that we can continue talking about this important topic.
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:19   #81
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

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Fuel is getting even more ridiculously expensive, but wrecks the motors as the ethanol additive proportion increases. Mind you, growing biofool is good, because it means less food, meaning people die which is population reduction and that's gotta be good for the planet. We used to pick volunteers the same way, when I was in the army, though we took slightly better care of them.
No disagreement that ethanol is currently hard on marine and other limited-use gas engines. And the production of ethanol from food is a gift of the corporate agriculture lobby, not environmentalists. The idea is/was to produce ethanol from waste. Not food.

Quote:
[indecipherable rant about atomic... oh here's something ] The turbines are horribly expensive and seem to wear out much faster than claimed, but it's public money which is abundant and inexhaustible, a true renewable and it's green!
Right. Current large-scale wind technology is maybe 2 decades old. Shame on them for not making the perfect wind turbine at the first go.

Quote:
We have wonderful new perhaps slightly toxic light bulbs that save energy by providing less light, and by being so bloody expensive and short lived that candles and oil (biofool oil of course) lamps are starting to look good.
Yes, shame on them that first generation CFL lighbulbs weren't perfect. (see above). Never mind that the new generation LED replacements are actually meeting the longevity goals, better spectral balance, and low cost per hour.

It only took the electronic industry and municipalities ... what, 50 years to get behind some reasonable collection and handling of toxic electronics. But it exists now. No reason for CFLs or LEDs to end up in landfill.

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Wherever we turn we are assailed by mindless robots repeating ad nauseum every tidbit the propaganda system feeds them.
...me too! Oh wait...

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Don't get me wrong, we should be better stewards of creation, but also use our God-given brain to THINK, instead of FEEL.
Fine, but finding fault with 97% of one branch of science seems less than ... thoughtful.

But I'm all ears. Got a solution? Can you do better than LEDs and wind generators?
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:21   #82
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

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Lake-E, if science were so cut and dried we wouldn't be having this discussion would we?
There's alot of cut-and-dried in 97%.

We're having this discussion because certain interested corporate parties have elevated BS to drown out science.
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:27   #83
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Another way to look at the science, and I am not saying this is fact but just speculate, assume you as a funding agency get 1000 proposals and 500 are toward furthering the global warming agenda and 500 are toward proving global warming is negligable.

If only the best 50 proposals for or...the best 50 proposals against global warming are funded and this selection process is continued year-after-year what will be the prevailing public opinion after 5, 10, etc. years?

It is possible that institutional biases are built into the system. How would a funding agency look in the press today if they funded anti-global warming research. I think they would look like an oil company.

BTW, science is not about a popular vote.
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:29   #84
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Rossby wave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For those with an interest in Rossby waves.
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:33   #85
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
10 Myths of Climate Change

...

MYTH 2. Itís just part of natural change.

Fact: The climate has changed throughout the Earthís history but this isnít the same as saying that global warming in todayís era is natural. In fact, past changes help scientists to understand the sensitivity of the global climate to forces such as the Sun, volcanoes and greenhouse gases.

....

[/LEFT]
MYTH 4. Itís the sun.

Fact: The Sun obviously has a big influence on the Earth but changes in the Sunís activity cannot explain the rise in global temperatures in recent decades. If anything, the Sunís output has diminished in recent decades yet the world is still warming.

.....


MYTH 7. Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant; itís natural and essential for life.

Fact: ĎNaturalí does not always equal Ďsafeí. Rapidly increasing high concentrations of CO2 and other greenhouse gases generated by human activity are jeopardising human health and wellbeing, as are most pollutants.

MYTH 8. Far back in time, global warming episodes had nothing to do with carbon dioxide levels.

Fact: Carbon role of CO2 in the planetís history is reasonably well understood. While changes in CO2 levels are certainly not the only force at work on the climate, past climate change cannot be explained without an understanding of the greenhouse properties of CO2.

MYTH 9. Australia has always had droughts, heat waves and extreme bushfire weather. There is no link to climate change.

Fact: Droughts, heat waves and bushfires are far from unusual in Australia but many scientists say there is a human signature in recent extreme events, making Australiaís already highly variable climate even more hostile.

.......


(just let me know when to stop)
Stop.

Fact Theory2: Human record, including ancient civilization such as the Mayan's, may include 1% of the total life of the Earth. How do we know what has or hasn't happened over the other 99%? We can't.

Fact Theory 4: How could it NOT be the sun? We do have enough scientific PROOF that the orbit of an object will eventually deteriorate due to the gravitational forces that put the object in orbit. How is the Earth's orbit not deteriorating? Though the effects of this deterioration isn't something that is seen over the span of a decade, surely, there is a chance that it could be seen over that 1% of the time that we have actually been recording it. While this should be the easy way......we would then know exactly what it was...and we could start taking measures to 'extend' life on earth by studying how to help cool it....or push up our departure for Mars, right? One would think.....hmmmm. (not meaning that our Mars attempts are in relation to this, I believe our Mars attempts are the next step in our evolution.)

Fact Theory 7: Fair is fair on this one. BUT....it would appear those rain forests would go a long way to help keeping us 'out of the red' and into the 'safety zone'. Here is a literal 'forest for the trees' example.

Fact Theory 9: This comes from and 8th or 9th grade text book. Heat will warm the water causing it to evaporate. This will form clouds. Once the clouds have reached critical mass (been a long time since 8th grade...I might be using the wrong term) it will drop the water causing rain. Using this theory, seems flooding would be more dominant that drought in a global warming environment.


LE....this is the exact kind of 'propaganda' that is used in an attempt to get people to do what is right (amazing that we are at the top of the food chain). The Earth is a powerful thing.....probably more powerful than any human will ever be able to wrap our puny little brains around. But if we continue to rape it for financial gain, it will only be able to sustain the abuse but for so long. Everything has a natural cycle. We humans are the 300HP engine strapped to that cycle ...... and there is so much more than 'climate change' on this cycle.

And yes...this forum has covered this topic before....and after this post...HOPEFULLY it will be covered again. There were A LOT of people that agreed with the Nazis, but FORTUNATELY there were many more that didn't! And yeah.....it is the same....on a much bigger scale.
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:38   #86
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

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This should be of real interest to those of you interested in meterology. It has particular interest for those seeking to do a trans-Atlantic for she talks extensively about how the wind patterns are changing.
This is the issue (OK, one of the issues) which particularly interests me. Wherever you stand on the causes of climate change, almost no one denies the climate is changing. Our entire civilization has existed in an unusually stable climatic period. This appears to be ending.

As sailors, we depend on the past to predict the present. Cruising routes, safe zones, hurricane holes ... all assume the past is a good predictor of the present. Current climate research suggests this assumption may no longer be valid.

What does that mean for those of you (soon to be "us") out there travelling the deep blue? How do you predict the unpredictable? ... OK, in a sense, I know the answer ... you don't. But still, is this increasing unpredictability having an impact on how people cruise?
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:40   #87
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

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But I'm all ears. Got a solution? Can you do better than LEDs and wind generators?
A good start would be to speak the truth, stop compromising and wean ourselves from the corporate/government teat. But this will not happen, so what is a minority to do? I'll preach the Gospel, and be thankful for what I have and what I get, whether it seems good at the time or not. As to conservation, one doesn't have to get into bed with the folks that rape the planet while pretending to preserve it, and even have the gall to force us to pay for the rope we're being hanged with. They even want us to like it, and put the noose on ourselves.

Here's some actionable suggestions;

Rip up all the golf courses and plant food. Stop persecuting people growing food in their gardens. Quit the GMO stuff. Quit the ecoscams of solar & wind, and develop cheap and clean nuclear. Buy quality goods that you need, made locally, not cheap luxury junk made in a filthy commie slave labour factory in China. Throw out the DVD and TV and games, and educate yourself.....education is not schooling.

I could go on, but need I?
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:44   #88
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

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Remember the Vikings lived and farmed on Greenland for 500 years before it got too cold.
And they were 1000 miles south from here, now we could farm here if just the reindeers let the crop grow..
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:47   #89
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Mmmmm, reindeer.....
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Old 26-02-2013, 14:53   #90
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Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
Another way to look at the science, and I am not saying this is fact but just speculate, assume you as a funding agency get 1000 proposals and 500 are toward furthering the global warming agenda and 500 are toward proving global warming is negligable.

If only the best 50 proposals for or...the best 50 proposals against global warming are funded and this selection process is continued year-after-year what will be the prevailing public opinion after 5, 10, etc. years?

It is possible that institutional biases are built into the system. How would a funding agency look in the press today if they funded anti-global warming research. I think they would look like an oil company.

BTW, science is not about a popular vote.
I thought you were saying you know science (aka scientific method, cooperation, falsifiable theorems, peer review, conferences). You do know the part about how rigorous science helps rule out human error and outside influences right?

And ... 97%

To believe the deniers, you have to believe that 97% of climate scientists are either frauds or bad scientists, and that the oil/coal lobby produces better science than... scientists.

Right.
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