Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-02-2013, 09:53   #211
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: WTB Lagoon or Leopard 38'-40'
Posts: 1,273
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
All appear (to me anyway) to be based on the acceptance of the others as established "fact" - a society of back-slapping kool-aid drinkers establishing "facts" through mutual acceptance.

Here is my source, I hope before someone asks for it.

This is an entertaining little show I saw recently. It goes along very nicely until near the end when essentially every sentence is prefaced with the phrase "the fact that..." followed by a "fact" that to my knowledge has never really been demonstrated in a practical way.

__________________

__________________
ArtM is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 09:58   #212
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: WTB Lagoon or Leopard 38'-40'
Posts: 1,273
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I think it's more about needing to have a purpose - and that probably hard wired from the time when surviving was a 24/7 thing.

and over time that need for a purpose got re-directed into work for the benefit of others (which became the few!).......and along the way just got re-labelled (and sold to the plebs) as neccessary using whatever message / propaganda / brain washing worked over time......otherwise a tough sell with only: "your purpose in working is simply to ensure that I don't have to" .

and just to clarify, I have not gone all Commie - just aware that whilst the "rich" do have a role in a society they are not needed nearly as much as they have convinced folks they are..........and in fact individually they need "us" more than we need "them".
Brilliant - I will be stealing some of this in future trolls discussions.
__________________

__________________
ArtM is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:00   #213
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

From this morning's edition of USA Today: NASA: Climate change thins forests in eastern U.S.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:01   #214
Registered User
 
scoundrel's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Pompano Beach, Florida
Posts: 53
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post

It's only because fossil fuel is under-priced that alternative energy needs a kickstart.
so, the big bad greedy oil companies are selling their product for less than it's worth ?

shame on those evil, greedy capitalists.
__________________
scoundrel is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:04   #215
Senior Cruiser
 
osirissail's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: A real life Zombie from FL
Boat: Gulfstar 53 - Osiris
Posts: 5,416
Images: 2
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Climate change - global warming - global cooling - It is really all just a matter of perspective or how far you step back and look at the history of the Earth. It is said that during the 4.5 billion years of Earth history 4 times the planet has been devoid of any significant ice (the last being the dinosaur ages when Antarctica was a temperate jungle summer hang-out for the dinosaurs) and 4 times when the earth was covered with ice - "snowball earth."

About 11,000 years or so ago earth was in a serious ice age and now we are not. So it is obvious that we are in a warming climate cycle when you look in large enough blocks of years. Trying to guess or predict 1-year, 10-year, even 100 year periods of time is hardly relevant to predicting million year trends. If you expand the graphs scientists produce for temperature variations over million year spans of time you find "vibrations," that is, time spans of temperature rises and decreases very much like expanding the output of an boat's inverter hertz curve which changes from a seemingly smooth sine wave to a jagged square wave.

Personally, I find trying to credit humans for "climate change" is wildly egotistical especially when hugely more powerful influences like solar activity, planetary orbit change, earth core influences on our magnetic field and galactic neighborhood influences are so much more powerful. Kind of like the ant thinking he can take credit for the change in an elephant path direction. But it makes for great forum discussions. . .
__________________
osirissail is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:05   #216
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: WTB Lagoon or Leopard 38'-40'
Posts: 1,273
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoundrel View Post
so, the big bad greedy oil companies are selling their product for less than it's worth ?

shame on those evil, greedy capitalists.
If you think that oil is the product of an oil company, you won't be able to follow the rest of the discussion.

Edit - that wasn't nice

Oil is not the product of an oil company, it is the product of several billion years of global evolution. The oil company behaves as if it is their oil, and the public has largely accepted that premise, but in fact they did not produce it, do not own it except in a legal sense that primarily predicated on land-rights law, and that which is primarily predicated on sovereign law.... well, it all comes down to guns.

Under the law, if you can take something from the land, and kill or otherwise oppress anyone who opposes your right to do so, then by law you are the owner of whatever you took from the land.

But that does not mean you "made" it.

The rest of this conversation is predicated on the idea that oil companies (and related industries) do not "make" oil, but merely control the access to it.
__________________
ArtM is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:10   #217
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,943
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by micah719 View Post
Underpriced? Lol. The cost of extracting and processing it is an order of magnitude less than the price we peons pay.
The cheap "drill & pump" oil is almost gone. Tarsands oil is only economically viable right now because of the tax breaks and low royalties being assessed by Alberta and Canada.

It's been widely noted that the US price for gas is unrealistically low, but it's also pretty clear that cheap gas is a big crutch to help keep the US economy limping along.
__________________
Lake-Effect is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:12   #218
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
Climate change - global warming - global cooling - It is really all just a matter of perspective or how far you step back and look at the history of the Earth. It is said that during the 4.5 billion years of Earth history 4 times the planet has been devoid of any significant ice (the last being the dinosaur ages when Antarctica was a temperate jungle summer hang-out for the dinosaurs) and 4 times when the earth was covered with ice - "snowball earth."

About 11,000 years or so ago earth was in a serious ice age and now we are not. So it is obvious that we are in a warming climate cycle when you look in large enough blocks of years. Trying to guess or predict 1-year, 10-year, even 100 year periods of time is hardly relevant to predicting million year trends. If you expand the graphs scientists produce for temperature variations over million year spans of time you find "vibrations," that is, time spans of temperature rises and decreases very much like expanding the output of an boat's inverter hertz curve which changes from a seemingly smooth sine wave to a jagged square wave.

Personally, I find trying to credit humans for "climate change" is wildly egotistical especially when hugely more powerful influences like solar activity, planetary orbit change, earth core influences on our magnetic field and galactic neighborhood influences are so much more powerful. Kind of like the ant thinking he can take credit for the change in an elephant path direction. But it makes for great forum discussions. . .
Now this is more like the context we should be putting things into. Homo Sapiens are taking "credit" or whatever you may wish to call it for way more than our egos should allow us.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:14   #219
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,943
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoundrel View Post
so, the big bad greedy oil companies are selling their product for less than it's worth ?
No, I mean that most consumers aren't paying enough to cover the true cost of using fossil fuels. In overall $$$ the west subsidizes oil consumption more than alternative energy.
__________________
Lake-Effect is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:15   #220
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
From this morning's edition of USA Today: NASA: Climate change thins forests in eastern U.S.
Notice how they seamlessly refer to years of high temperature and drought in a specific localised region and then in the same breath name it climate change?
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:18   #221
Registered User
 
LakeSuperior's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Boat: Teak Yawl, 37'
Posts: 1,581
Images: 7
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ship2210 View Post
Notice how they seamlessly refer to years of high temperature and drought in a specific localised region and then in the same breath name it climate change?
It's tough to sell a newspaper without some drama!
__________________
LakeSuperior is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:18   #222
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,943
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
Personally, I find trying to credit humans for "climate change" is wildly egotistical especially when hugely more powerful influences like solar activity, planetary orbit change, earth core influences on our magnetic field and galactic neighborhood influences are so much more powerful. Kind of like the ant thinking he can take credit for the change in an elephant path direction. But it makes for great forum discussions. . .
For that to be proved, you'd have to show how "solar activity, planetary orbit change, earth core influences on our magnetic field and galactic neighborhood influences" correlate with the observed recent climate changes.

We can and have measured "solar activity, planetary orbit change, earth core influences on our magnetic field and galactic neighborhood influences". Guess what? No correlation.

CO2 accumulation? Correlation.

So who's being egotistical?
__________________
Lake-Effect is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:28   #223
Registered User
 
Bluewaters2812's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cruising
Boat: Not a Beneteau!
Posts: 911
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Bluewaters2812
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

So who's being egotistical?[/QUOTE]

I'm sure you will know the answer to that, as do I.
__________________
Bluewaters2812 is offline  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:32   #224
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,034
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
Personally, I find trying to credit humans for "climate change" is wildly egotistical especially when hugely more powerful influences like solar activity, planetary orbit change, earth core influences on our magnetic field and galactic neighborhood influences are so much more powerful. Kind of like the ant thinking he can take credit for the change in an elephant path direction. But it makes for great forum discussions. . .
Humility of our limitations, and our position as just another critter on this big planet, is important. However, it is foolish to ignore the incredible power humans wield. There was a time when the forests looked too vast, when the oceans too big, when the number of bison, cod or whales looked too many for us to conceive of us having any impact. Today we have decimated many forests, polluted large parts of our oceans, and killed off more species than we even know.

Yes, we could disappear in a puff if hit by a big asteroid or comet. A nearby supernovae would kill us all, and if the Sun had a really big hiccup all our problems would go away (along with us). But this does not mean we aren't having a profound effect on this little planet of ours.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now  
Old 27-02-2013, 10:42   #225
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,943
Re: Effects of Global Warming ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by moi
So who's being egotistical?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ship2210 View Post
I'm sure you will know the answer to that, as do I.
I so want this thread to go away, I really do. Or at least reclassified as non-sailing off-topic garbage discussion. And I said so to the mods. But I guess the page-views for this train-wreck are too sweet, or something.
__________________

__________________
Lake-Effect is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.