Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-08-2015, 17:57   #76
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drum thrower View Post
As part of the delivery crew of this boat for this crossing, I would like to set the record straight.

From memory, this was about Halfway into our 14 day trip. Over 1000miles from closest land. In over 16000 ft of water.

We had a front moving in that would see us with 30-40 knots from the NW on the nose, on starboard tack for 12 hours in 20-30 foot seas.

Due to the large amount of water that would be coming over the deck, a decision was made to empty the tank into the boats tank. It was decided that the empty drum posed risk to boat and crew from the water that was to come over the deck.

The tank then had oil absorbent cloth on the end of a broom stick used to clean the drum. The drum had degreaser and water swirls around and drained again. A comment was made at the time that the drum was cleaner then the bowls we ate our cereal out of.

The tank had a few dozen holes drilled it in. It was thrown over the side and seen to sink shortly after.

Unfortunately, tough decisions need to be made offshore eg. Cut rigs loose, abandon boats etc.

Although this was not as extreme, a decision was made to protect crew and boat from a stray drum.

I think you'd agree the biggest regret was putting it in a video where it can be taken out of context.

I hope this settles the matter.
Thanks for posting and welcome to CF. Bit of an odd welcome I know.

With the Context I probably would have made the same decision. But what really surprises me is that without ANY context, a number on here would just dump anything over board. As someone else said, no wonder so many beaches are strewn with trash if the attitude is 'I won't make any differences to the bigger picture'.
__________________

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 18:04   #77
Registered User
 
Rustic Charm's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Bieroc 36 foot Ketch
Posts: 4,898
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Where do you think your trash goes when you throw it away in a proper, "environmentally friendly" way? Do you think the trash fairy takes it to a magical place where all of it in its entirety is recycled into new stuff?

Who's being naive? Basically, it either gets burned, buried or dumped into the ocean. At least when steel is dumped at sea, it gets broken down in a relatively short period of time and provides a home for some formerly homeless sea creatures.
I don't deny being 'naive' Kenomac. I'm a little surprised at my own naivety to be honest. I honestly thought sailors would largely care about the environment. I assumed, sailors would be like most bush walkers I've ever known and would look after their environment.

And NO, no where at least in my state and I doubt in many Australian places, if any, does our trash get 'burned, or dumped' into the ocean. Ours are buried, yes, in locations that meet environmental ground secure conditions. Medical waste is burned, but in specially built furnaces with limited emissions.
__________________

__________________
Rustic Charm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 18:07   #78
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Well it certainly puts the action in perspective. As explained, I suspect most here including myself probably would have made the same decision.
I agree... But I would also hope there might still be a few sailors out there, who might not feel it necessary to be carrying such a massive additional supply of fuel on deck to begin with... ;-)

That's the real head-scratcher here, for me... By all accounts, the Swan 82 is a pretty impressive sailing machine, I would think it should be quite capable of completing one of the world's great tradewinds passages relying upon the 480 gallons of fuel tankage built into the standard 82, alone...

I realize one "can never have too much diesel" on any ocean passage, but the addition of a pair of 55 gallon drums, and another large fuel bladder does seem a bit over the top, in this instance... One is left to wonder, did they ever stop running the engine?

;-)


__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 18:16   #79
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg View Post
I agree... But I would also hope there might still be a few sailors out there, who might not feel it necessary to be carrying such a massive additional supply of fuel on deck to begin with... ;-)

That's the real head-scratcher here, for me... By all accounts, the Swan 82 is a pretty impressive sailing machine, I would think it should be quite capable of completing one of the world's great tradewinds passages relying upon the 480 gallons of fuel tankage built into the standard 82, alone...

I know one "can never have too much diesel" on any ocean passage, but the addition of a pair of 55 gallon drums, and another large fuel bladder does seem a bit over the top, in this instance... One is left to wonder, did they ever stop running the engine?

;-)


Unlike cruising yachts, superyachts have a schedule to meet... They take a rhumb line straight across the alantic.
Do you think the owners care if they burn an extra couple thousand litres to get there a week earlier?

Of course it's possible to sail the entire route. But as you'd understand from these rich owners perspective, what's a few thousand bucks if they get to use their boat a lot sooner?
__________________
Drum thrower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 18:20   #80
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Oh i guess those barrels are painted with environment friendly Paint to?
__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 18:32   #81
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,892
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Welcome to CF Drum
I understand the professional SY pressures of meeting schedules, but I do not understand the seamanship logic of believing 2 empty 55 gal drums properly padded and lashed to the stern posed a higher risk than those same drums full that you were prepared to depart with?

I respect the need to Jettison in an emergency, but this was not the case and I suspect the delivery Skipper's rationalisation was based more on the convenience factor of getting rid of unwanted garbage from his arrival work list.

It was dumb, irresponsible and unnecessary.
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 18:39   #82
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Bern, NC
Boat: Holman & Pye Red Admiral 36
Posts: 498
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

For the weather conditions that they were going to get into, both of the drums would have broken free of the "securing straps" that they had on them as shown in the picture.

Unless you have hands-on experience with drums and securing them, you will never secure them tight enough or properly to a yacht.

As mentioned in my earlier post, when my 3 drums broke loose in similar sea and weather conditions, the engineers had 4 sets of 2" ratchet tie down strapping on EACH barrel - and they all broke loose.

Keeping a 400-lb drum in one spot is not a simple thing to do, and once they have broken free become a "death machine" in heavy weather.

All things considered, they did the right thing - emptied the drum, put lots of holes in it and then tossed it over the side.
__________________
Doug Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 18:40   #83
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Welcome Drum Thrower. Take a seat in the witness chair while the godly of CF judge you...
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 19:12   #84
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Welcome Drum Thrower. Take a seat in the witness chair while the godly of CF judge you...
Oh come on now, none of us are opinionated especially us Canadians.

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 19:14   #85
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Welcome Drum Thrower. Take a seat in the witness chair while the godly of CF judge you...
Haha thanks... I will now gracefully bow out of this conversation and let the armchair critics do their bit.

Safe sailing everyone
__________________
Drum thrower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 19:21   #86
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,892
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Brown View Post

1....Unless you have hands-on experience with drums and securing them, you will never secure them tight enough or properly to a yacht.


2....Keeping a 400-lb drum in one spot is not a simple thing to do, and once they have broken free become a "death machine" in heavy weather.
.
1....I have tons of experience lashing drums to a yacht.. (Often helicopter fuel) and never lost a single one. From the photo, it appears it was not lashed very well, so I can appreciate their concern.

Also, letting engineers secure with straps was a mistake.

2...... An EMPTY drum is not a death machine and could easily have been jettison, but if tied properly at the low impact stern, it would not be an issue.
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 19:25   #87
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drum thrower View Post
Unlike cruising yachts, superyachts have a schedule to meet... They take a rhumb line straight across the alantic.
Do you think the owners care if they burn an extra couple thousand litres to get there a week earlier?

Of course it's possible to sail the entire route. But as you'd understand from these rich owners perspective, what's a few thousand bucks if they get to use their boat a lot sooner?
OK, fair enough, I get that... That's what makes them "Superyachts", I suppose...

However, everyone knows that REAL Superyachts cross oceans via Dockwise/Sevenstar nowadays...

;-)





Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Brown View Post
For the weather conditions that they were going to get into, both of the drums would have broken free of the "securing straps" that they had on them as shown in the picture.

Unless you have hands-on experience with drums and securing them, you will never secure them tight enough or properly to a yacht.
Yup, if I was the owner of that boat, I would hope that at least the drum on the port side had already been emptied...

Hell, I've seen heavier lashing arrangements of 5 gallon jerry jugs on Island Packets motoring down the ICW...

;-)
__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 19:47   #88
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

They holed the cans and the ocean was 400 meters deep.

I would not do this but who am I.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 20:06   #89
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 592
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
It means one hell of a lot.

Your comment justifies someone dumping their McDonald wrappers out their car window. If you want to see what that looks like then visit India or many other cities around the world that don't care about rubbish.

I know there will always be some sailors who really don't give a sod about the environment their sailing in, but we always need to ensure the louder voice is heard and those who believe it's ok to dump rubbish are shamed into learning the harm they do.
__________________
captlloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-08-2015, 20:39   #90
Registered User
 
Kreef's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 83
Send a message via Skype™ to Kreef
Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drum thrower View Post
As part of the delivery crew of this boat for this crossing, I would like to set the record straight.

From memory, this was about Halfway into our 14 day trip. Over 1000miles from closest land. In over 16000 ft of water.

We had a front moving in that would see us with 30-40 knots from the NW on the nose, on starboard tack for 12 hours in 20-30 foot seas.

Due to the large amount of water that would be coming over the deck, a decision was made to empty the tank into the boats tank. It was decided that the empty drum posed risk to boat and crew from the water that was to come over the deck.

The tank then had oil absorbent cloth on the end of a broom stick used to clean the drum. The drum had degreaser and water swirls around and drained again. A comment was made at the time that the drum was cleaner then the bowls we ate our cereal out of.

The tank had a few dozen holes drilled it in. It was thrown over the side and seen to sink shortly after.

Unfortunately, tough decisions need to be made offshore eg. Cut rigs loose, abandon boats etc.

Although this was not as extreme, a decision was made to protect crew and boat from a stray drum.

I think you'd agree the biggest regret was putting it in a video where it can be taken out of context.

I hope this settles the matter.
It seems my comments re not having an empty drum possibly flying about the deck in a heavy sea was the main reason for dumping it .Not sure what this crew would have done though if their tanks could not accommodate the diesel and the storm had caught them with full drums lashed to the deck.400 lbs flying about would dismantle the boat I reckon .I think under the circumstances we can let them off the hook or what?Especially if you consider that they really went out of their way to make sure no diesel polluted the water.
__________________

__________________
happy on the sea
Kreef is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
illegal dumping, S/Y Cowabunga, S/Y Onghiara, shame

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yanmar 3YM30 wont rev and dumping black fuel wynmead Engines and Propulsion Systems 9 20-06-2014 22:19
Empty Oceans DeepFrz Off Topic Forum 4 16-04-2010 13:44
Hold tank gravity empty question nautical62 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 7 31-01-2009 09:15
Empty weight "BS" ldrhawke Multihull Sailboats 10 13-07-2008 05:57
Phillip Merril's Sailboat Found Empty In Chesapeake Bay CaptainK Cruising News & Events 31 28-06-2006 08:26



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.