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Old 22-08-2015, 08:12   #46
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

This is somehow legal it comes down to just because you can doesn't mean you should

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Old 22-08-2015, 08:19   #47
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

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Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
Considering that no one gave a crap about the murder video of 4 fishermen, I'm pretty sure this would even be less on the radar.

This is sad, considering those barrels are worth money on shore. They could have kept them lashed on deck and sold them when they made landfall.
To my mind having empty drums like that aboard without the weight of contents to keep them stable could in a heavy sea be hazardous.Holing the drum in some way and sinking it sounds more practical and the very little diesel remaining sure as hell is not going to affect anything.The drum will sink and rust away at leisure and add some iron oxide to the sea .If you are much closer to shore and in shallower waters sure keep it aboard to dispose of or reuse .
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Old 22-08-2015, 08:23   #48
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Contrary to what most people believe in America, no harm is done to the environment by tossing empty fuel barrels overboard. The residual diesel quickly evaporates, and the empty drum becomes a welcome home for a sea creature 5000 feet below the surface. Any scuba diver can verify my post, the critters down there love steel junk. Just dive and look at a shipwreck sometime.

Actually, it's a net positive act for the environment, it's really no different than Jimmy Carter building homes for the homeless. Sea creatures want homes too, and an empty barrel will do just fine.
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Old 22-08-2015, 08:25   #49
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

I just came across an interesting statistic.
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The Department of Defense uses 4,600,000,000 US gallons (1.7×1010 L) of fuel annually, an average of 12,600,000 US gallons (48,000,000 L) of fuel per day. A large Army division may use about 6,000 US gallons (23,000 L) per day. According to the 2005 CIA World Factbook, if it were a country, the DoD would rank 34th in the world in average daily oil use, coming in just behind Iraq and just ahead of Sweden.[1]
Anyone that thinks a couple of ounces of oil in the ocean is going to make any difference is looking at the wrong place to point their fingers. I understand the need for all of us to be careful with how we use our finite resources but we need to get at the heavy hitters. They are the ones that are using the resources at such a rate that we are destroying our planet. Don't waste your energy tut tut-ing these guys when you could be writing your congressional rep. and your senatorial rep. and your president or whatever you/I call those that "represent"(HAH) us.
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Old 22-08-2015, 08:26   #50
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

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Do I believe in leaving a clean wake? Yes. Would I do this myself? No.

However, I don't believe it's immoral and I'm not going to duck for cover.

Also, I'm tired of people screaming about ABYC rule X or MARPOL rule Y without actually carefully reading what those rules say. Mostly its just people screaming about what they WISH the rules said. There is a reason why the oil rule is set at particular PPM. There is a reason the lawyers chose the word "discharge" vs. "release". Its incumbent upon an enforcement authority to test the water to see if that PPM has been exceeded.

So, no, there is a good chance they have not broken the law.

If they made a reasonable attempt to clean out the residue, such as using an absorbent rag, and punched holes so it sank, then they have taken care of the two primary concerns. So, in my eyes, it's not really immoral either. Do you guys really retain all the leftover oil from your cooking and not allow it to be washed into the sea down you sink drain? Come on, tell the truth.

Everyone wants to bitch about the oil in the water but no one wants to put up giant oil absorber floats all around marinas or on storm water drains from the streets.

I'm not commenting on the moral side, but doesn't MARPOL clearly state that dumping of metal isn't allowed anywhere, anytime?
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Old 22-08-2015, 08:31   #51
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Interesting that no one even commented on the average of two large ships that sink every week.
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Old 22-08-2015, 08:34   #52
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Contrary to what most people believe in America, no harm is done to the environment by tossing empty fuel barrels overboard. The residual diesel quickly evaporates, and the empty drum becomes a welcome home for a sea creature 5000 feet below the surface. Any scuba diver can verify my post, the critters down there love steel junk. Just dive and look at a shipwreck sometime.

Actually, it's a net positive act for the environment, it's really no different than Jimmy Carter building homes for the homeless. Sea creatures want homes too, and an empty barrel will do just fine.
Imagine the sound down there too as empty barrels make the most noise .Maybe some fish enjoy the sound of drums!!
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Old 22-08-2015, 08:37   #53
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
Contrary to what most people believe in America, no harm is done to the environment by tossing empty fuel barrels overboard. The residual diesel quickly evaporates, and the empty drum becomes a welcome home for a sea creature 5000 feet below the surface. Any scuba diver can verify my post, the critters down there love steel junk. Just dive and look at a shipwreck sometime.
5000 feet! You must have some awesome SCUBA gear. Kidding of course, but I have sailed over natural oil seeps that don't seem to hurt the environment too much. Whether refining the sulphur, heavy carbon and other natural impurities out of the oil makes it more hazardous is hard to say. Me? I wouldn't have dumped them, but then there's not much chance of me packing a 55 gallon drum on my little boat anyway. A rainbow sheen from oily bilge water however........
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Old 22-08-2015, 08:41   #54
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
I'm not commenting on the moral side, but doesn't MARPOL clearly state that dumping of metal isn't allowed anywhere, anytime?
Attachment 107774
That's why I said "discharge". What is the definition of "discharge"? If you lose a bolt off your mast and it falls into the sea, are you in violation of MARPOL?

The placard says it has to be in the mechanical room, which for large boats is in where they often keep trash as well. Its doesn't say it has to be visible on deck, which says to me that "discharge" means garbage that originates from inside the vessel.

The reason this is important is because they went ahead and made the following changes to the new MARPOL rules, which means they thought very hard about what the meanings of words are:

Amend § 151.05 as follows:
a. Remove the words “MARPOL 73/78”, wherever they appear, and add in their place, the word “MARPOL”;
b. Remove the definitions of the terms “Cargo associated wastes”,“Maintenance waste”,“MARPOL 73/78”,“Oily rags” and “Victual waste”;
c. Add, in alphabetical order, the definitions of the terms “Captain of the Port (COTP)”,“Cargo residues”,“Cooking oil”,“En route”,“Fishing gear”,“Fixed or floating drilling rig or other platform”,“Food wastes”,“Harmful to the marine environment”,“Incinerator ashes”,“International Maritime Organization (IMO) guidelines”,“MARPOL”,“Navigable waters”, and “Recycling” to read as follows; and
d. Revise the definitions of the terms “Domestic wastes”,“Garbage”,“Graywater”,“Nearest land”,“Operational wastes”, and “Plastic” to read as follows:
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Old 22-08-2015, 08:55   #55
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

Would you guys that think this is OK mind going and finding another planet to sail on please?
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Old 22-08-2015, 09:00   #56
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

I'm going to go spread some DDT and heavy duty fertilizer on my lawn, kill some innocent bees, take out a few squirrels/deer to hang on my wall, and turn on my air conditioner to 50 degrees while I'm not home.

Come on really?
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Old 22-08-2015, 09:14   #57
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
That's why I said "discharge". What is the definition of "discharge"? If you lose a bolt off your mast and it falls into the sea, are you in violation of MARPOL?

The placard says it has to be in the mechanical room, which for large boats is in where they often keep trash as well. Its doesn't say it has to be visible on deck, which says to me that "discharge" means garbage that originates from inside the vessel.

The reason this is important is because they went ahead and made the following changes to the new MARPOL rules, which means they thought very hard about what the meanings of words are:

Amend § 151.05 as follows:
a. Remove the words “MARPOL 73/78”, wherever they appear, and add in their place, the word “MARPOL”;
b. Remove the definitions of the terms “Cargo associated wastes”,“Maintenance waste”,“MARPOL 73/78”,“Oily rags” and “Victual waste”;
c. Add, in alphabetical order, the definitions of the terms “Captain of the Port (COTP)”,“Cargo residues”,“Cooking oil”,“En route”,“Fishing gear”,“Fixed or floating drilling rig or other platform”,“Food wastes”,“Harmful to the marine environment”,“Incinerator ashes”,“International Maritime Organization (IMO) guidelines”,“MARPOL”,“Navigable waters”, and “Recycling” to read as follows; and
d. Revise the definitions of the terms “Domestic wastes”,“Garbage”,“Graywater”,“Nearest land”,“Operational wastes”, and “Plastic” to read as follows:

Surely you can't be serious with that reply...
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Old 22-08-2015, 09:19   #58
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

I guess they felt it was wrong too....
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Old 22-08-2015, 09:24   #59
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

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At least it wasn't heavy oil.

Diesel evaporates readily and I have been told US warplanes routinely dump JP5 (kerosene - it's in the purple colored pipes on carriers ). If this is untrue I stand ready to be corrected.
Its true Dave. For commercial jets, min dumping altitude is 2000'......most dumping occurs above 5000'. And YES, the kerosene evaporates.....little if any touches the ground (supposedly)

Our dump rate is aprox 5000 LBS per minute.....and may dump up to 300,000 LBS of fuel. That's A LOT of vaporized kerosene.
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Old 22-08-2015, 09:31   #60
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Re: Dumping empty fuel barrels in the ocean

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Its true Dave. For commercial jets, min dumping altitude is 2000'......most dumping occurs above 5000'. And YES, the kerosene evaporates.....little if any touches the ground (supposedly)

Our dump rate is aprox 5000 LBS per minute.....and may dump up to 300,000 LBS of fuel. That's A LOT of vaporized kerosene.
Now you've done it..... Lots of hand wringing and Lots of panties getting in a wad after reading your post.
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