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Old 25-09-2010, 03:49   #61
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pirate Don't let the thread die...

Come on folks... its a worthwhile debate, I know some thought it was turning into a 'P#**ing Contest' but it wasn't really....
Examples are not exclusive rights... two were at the higher end... two were at the lower end to show that there's good boats out there... years of fixing after buying a boat is not inevitable... and more for and against 'Size' is definitely needed...
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Old 25-09-2010, 04:36   #62
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Basically I could just be an *******....

Maybe the most universal turth for all us of here once in a while I've ever read on CF.

What's this thread about again?
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Old 25-09-2010, 04:44   #63
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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Maybe the most universal turth for all us of here once in a while I've ever read on CF.

What's this thread about again?
Anal Retentanative A**Holes on CF.... with the odd mention of whose is 'Bigger' therefore better....
"it aint what ya got its how ya use it......." lmao.

Chill...
Where's that tongue in cheek smiley....
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Old 25-09-2010, 05:03   #64
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I went back and reread the orginal post. Must have been a reasonable about amount of thread drift to get to 5 pagesbecause how could one disagree that if the only consideration was comfort at size matters and bigger is better.
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Old 25-09-2010, 06:04   #65
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if the only consideration was comfort at size matters and bigger is better.
The real question I was trying to raise (and discuss and get input on! ) was to put a finger on how things are connected when it comes to us moving around at sea.

There are so many factors to consider, and they somehow seem to be tied into each other somehow.
i.e. with your look at the comfort aspect, I am inclined to say that comfort = safety = survival of ship and crew = .........

What would rightfully come into play at this point would be the question about the intended use!
It's a totally different story if someone would be living landlocked, i.e. at some rugged UK shore, and would go out sailing at the odd weekend - versus - someone using his boat for the occasional vacation in the med with friends and family during "season" - versus - someone doing the Caribbean or even the coconat-milk run around the globe - versus someone planing to stray aways from the beaten path at least every now and then anticipating conditions which resemble more the "sh*t hits the fan" type of scenario - versus someone drooling over the idea to beat some round-the records staying as long as possible in them roaring fourties.... (etc.)

So I really wanted to find out how "use / purpose / intention" is set into correlation with "experience" and - here we go: "size".

I only choose the title "Does Size Matter" because it seemed so nicely catchy at the time, *grin* but my intentions behind the question are rather serious and I REALLY liked the input so far!

Of particular interest I find the reasoning that "bigger = expensive" which most probably is true if you'd buy new, but (at least as far as purchase cost of the vessel is concerned) not when one buys used. You can get loads of greatly equipped and proven boats a couple of sizes larger and still cheaper than small ones (OK, even given the old truth that there is no such thing like a cheap boat)
Size also most certainly is a cost-factor if one does keep his boat - at least most of the time - at a marina, but quite honestly I find an excessively traveling larger boat (where site also aids to the increased amount of time spent under way!) cheaper to maintain than one of these constant marina - & anchorage sitting dink-sized ones.
As someone pointed out in an earlier posting, he enjoys paddling over to the big neighbors to loan the fancy tools they carry - which is exactly the point: Bigger size also allows for bigger "payload", so more spares, more tools, more possibilities to help yourself ... and there are no "big neighbors" around at many anchorages.. (etc.)
And I am not suggesting that I would ever mind to help someone on a smaller (cruising - I am ashamed to say: Not charter-) boat in anyway I can, and while I still had my last boat it was a common site at anchorages to have a bunch of "shore-power-cables" protruding from the porthole of my engine room. Any why not? With a 15KW Genset the difference in consumption was marginal whether I'd run it only for our own needs or for a bunch of neighbors as well.

But in the end it all boils down to "compromises" ... and this thread here basically is about the kind of compromises you, my fellow sailing-nutties *grin* are willing to make (and why!)
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Old 25-09-2010, 06:30   #66
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currently I sail a Corribee 21... my 14th boat....
I'm 6ft 2in tall and OK I'm a slender 12stone and the Corribee's got 4ft 6in headroom... who cares... ...,,,,, As far as I'm concerned someone who singlehands but feels a 60ftr is the minimum suitable for them has a serious problem.. what I'm not quite sure... to much money... to many paranoias..
And yes Ex-Calif... I'm sippin the Vino again...
Yeah, sorry guys, but I am really on my last glass of good quality Aussie vino. Still, I totally have to agree with boatman’s original comment. When I was looking for a more seaworthy boat than my Hunter 19’ I spent a year or so pondering over the plans and marketing brochures of those bigger boats while sitting about bored sh@tless at work with unrestrained internet access. It was all a dream and I am now happy with my H 28. I could have gone bigger, but it would have broken me.

Then the great thing I find about the 4’6 or so headroom about most of the boat is that I can always wedge myself in and there isn’t far to fall if she ever does cop a knock-over. What most of the boat show cloned enthusiast don’t realise is that is what is below the water line in my boat that really makes it behave well at sea. I take a near submarine philosophy that with such low windage most of the weather should just pass over me. For a laugh I was even going to get an USSR surplus navy jacket with U-boat insignia to keep me warm at the pubs down south.

I still can get over my ex-navy officer “mate” who got on the old girl and was stupid enough to ask me whether this thing would tip over. Just shows how little some people do really understand. Equally, I have a boat builder mate and even his wife maintains their 30’ or so 1930’s low free-board wooden cruising yacht is infinitely more sea-kindly than an almost 40’ near new Jeanneau they chartered in Croatia. Now fantasising about this kind of stuff really makes me feel like going cruising!

On the other hand, please don’t think I am ripping you guy’s with bigger boats. As I said above, if I was going to do the full family live aboard thing I might seriously be looking for a 50’ ketch. (Gotta love this one at 44’ http://www.gozzard.com/atk/uploads/g44mark2_ketchinteriorblueprint.pdf)
Like the original poster I am not talking some glossy production boat, but something well priced and practical (hence the one in the link is a mere fantasy!)

In the meantime, I am still standing fast with Boatman's idea that it is more about the man than the boat. I am also not budging on the fact that I feel if you are a man and/or woman of the sea the right boat will find you regardless of its size or shape.

Glad it is my last glass as I should head down the boat in the morning and get the sails up. Who knows where the wind will take me?
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Old 25-09-2010, 08:42   #67
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There are so many factors to consider, and they somehow seem to be tied into each other somehow.

i.e. with your look at the comfort aspect, I am inclined to say that comfort = safety = survival of ship and crew = ...
Only the first part of your statement is OK. Comfort is one of the factors hence it cannot = safety.

Because you can have a comfortable and unsafe boat too.

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Old 25-09-2010, 09:46   #68
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Certainly size and function were related for me. I have found I prefer sailing on a smaller craft but I chose to live aboard for the last year and living aboard was my intention and while I'm not living aboard now still like cruising winter or summer. Winter is cool (some might say cold) and wet here and and the days are short so a comfortable cabin is very important. Some 35 footers would have done for me and some wouldn't. My is 41.5 and has a 14 foot beam. It's heavy with good ballast and a very stable vessel. It has a pilothouse and full bimini. It is designed and built for this climate and these waters.

If I was somewhere else I would want something else - I suspect my next boat will be something smaller and who knows I may even give in to the lure of wood.
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Old 25-09-2010, 11:03   #69
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I've always wondered why fellows living in small boats get so angry when they're drunk.
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Old 25-09-2010, 11:06   #70
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Alright, I'll chime in.

We (my wife and I) own and sail a 61. We've both sailed tens of thousands of miles, mostly racing and deliveries but also a fair bit of cruising. We've owned everything from Optimist dinghy's to the current 61.

We like the 61 very much and have owned it for 9 years but fully realize it is not the right boat for everyone. In fact it is the wrong boat for most people. It takes a couple bucks to keep it running, it takes experience to sail and dock and it can be dangerous when the breeze is on. We bought the boat because we liked the boat.

For perspective: the gooseneck is 6 foot off the deck and the headboard is 12 foot off the deck.


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Old 25-09-2010, 11:38   #71
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Of particular interest I find the reasoning that "bigger = expensive" which most probably is true if you'd buy new, but (at least as far as purchase cost of the vessel is concerned) not when one buys used. [...]
Look, for similar boats in comparable condition, bigger = more $$$. Sure, you can find cheap big boats, and expensive small boats, but so what?

Quote:
Size also most certainly is a cost-factor if one does keep his boat - at least most of the time - at a marina, but quite honestly I find an excessively traveling larger boat (where site also aids to the increased amount of time spent under way!) cheaper to maintain than one of these constant marina - & anchorage sitting dink-sized ones. [...]
This "cheaper to maintain" part I don't understand. Being underway (underweigh?) involves wear and tear. The rigging gets stressed, the sails are exposed to wind and sun, the engine gets used, things break and wear out. I think you've got it backwards. Certainly if you can avoid marinas you don't have to pay slip rental, but that's hardly "maintenance".

Also, bigger boats do cost more to keep up. Lines are bigger and more expensive, bigger sails are definitely more expensive, hardware is larger, in fact I can't think of anything aboard a big boat that is is less expensive than what you would find on an equivalent smaller boat.

There may be a sweet spot where you get the best ratio of boat/dollar, just because of the supply/demand curve and the efficiencies of mass production. There is a size range that works well for single/doublehanders, and there are boats that are more rugged than others. There's no single correct answer and all boats are compromises. My advice: Do a lot of research, sail on a variety of boats, immerse yourself in the process (wear a PFD). Eventually, you will be confounded by all the possibilities, each with their pros and cons. But, you will have narrowed down the field considerably. At this point you need to fall in love. You won't be able to explain why that particular boat is the one, but you will know that you have a boat that meets your basic needs. It won't be perfect, but nothing in this life is. And you won't care -- you're in love.
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Old 25-09-2010, 11:41   #72
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... thats one good looking boat...
I appreciate beautiful boats of all sizes... and types...
I'm just one of those guys whose never wanted one... 37ft as big as I'll ever want to own.... except maybe the Choey Lee Clipper45....
But then there's always the 36... near enough just as beautiful to my eyes.
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Old 25-09-2010, 12:47   #73
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i find perfection in 41 ft plus sprit. she aint perfect, by any stretch, but the potential for mods without added pricing is there-- and i didnt pay much for her and she is in better shape than originally thought--wow--i win--- as a ketch, she has all kinds of sail combination potential for balancing under many differing sea and weather conditions.has a wide and flat deck. roomy. she has electronix and simrad on the quadrant, works well under many weather conditions--just requires electricity--have solar, so covered! has engine and all is nearly ready to go ....i love her lines and her size is perfect even if i find someone who wants to hitch a ride for a few yrs-- (has to pass certain tests first.).lol...
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Old 25-09-2010, 12:54   #74
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...sure the size matters on boats as well! It is much easier to convince the opposite sex on the marina that you are the man, if your boat is 5' or 10' or 30' longer than other vessels. An extra mast or two does not hurt either. Of course, the man in a smaller vessel can try to claim that his sailing technique is better, he tacks faster, hoits sails in no time etc - but is there anyone listening?
Will that make up for substituting a wheel for the tiller?
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Old 25-09-2010, 13:12   #75
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... Size also matters greatly when it comes to deckspace aka safety. So its not only comfort of movements at sea and the amount of beating bigger boats can take, or about the comfort below decks ... its also very much about how safely one can move about on deck - especially since only very few boats offer all sail handling from within the cockpit.

Also when looking at some of the stanchions of smaller boats I shudder upon the imagination of being thrown against them in a sudden violent move of the boat. What are the odds that those will prevent me from being washed over board?! ...
I'm a believer:

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