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Rakuflames · 11-10-2013, 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Rakuflames please quit posting nonsense.

Regardless of which way you are facing, if you push the tiller to starboard in reverse, the boat is going to move PORT (in the absence of other influences such as current, wind and prop walk).

I'm not posting nonsense. You're choosing to get "all het up" as they say in the South over port and starboard. See my answer to Coops. Or, you could actually TRY it. There's a thought.

Sailmonkey · 11-10-2013, 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert

race boats are fun, huh?

Got nothing to do with a race boat ( that you don't have). Just keel shape.
You can race any boat, but a Tayana surprise is not a "race boat"
This is a race boat
https://www.google.com/search?q=open...&bih=416&dpr=2

Strait Shooter · 11-10-2013, 06:04

No way!!!!!!!!
When I went to bed last night you guys were having this discussion.
I get up this morning to discover you're still having this discussion.

I have GOT to get a life. I'm going down to the boat to play with my tiller.

Let me know which way to push or pull it

scoobert · 11-10-2013, 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

Got nothing to do with a race boat ( that you don't have). Just keel shape.
You can race any boat, but a Tayana surprise is not a "race boat"
This is a race boat
https://www.google.com/search?q=open...&bih=416&dpr=2

it was used in races, so it is a race boat.

**FrankZ** · 11-10-2013, 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Yes, of course it will! Unless you actually try it and get your head out of your ... vocabulary ... you'll never get it. Not my problem. I'm sure you don't need any help backing your boat into the slip, and you're having so much fun this way. No matter how much I explain it you will deliberately misinterpret it, so I'm not going to bother.

but really, if the slip is on the south side of the fairway, and you're backing up and facing the stern, and you push the tiller to the south, the boat will turn to the south and back right up into the slip. I think using NSEW is the best way to explain this -- to an open mind, anyway. The new students on the boat with us Sunday didn't stand around puffing themselves up because they understand port and starboard. They backed the boat up, and pushed the tiller to the south, and the stern of the boat turned south and right into the slip.

That's actually what mattered to them -- not a three day snit because someone didn't use "port and starboard," but getting the boat into the slip safely.

A tiller steered boat will not behave as you explain, no matter how many times you say, how loud you say it or how rudely you say it.

If you move the tiller one way the rudder points in a different direction. In reverse a boat will move to where the rudder points, over riding factors not withstanding.

I have tried it, more than once. You are not the only person to have ever backed a tiller steered boat.

Rakuflames · 11-10-2013, 06:09

Since you've never tried it, I don't see how you would know whether or not it is helpful to beginners. However, I just did it with two people who absolutely are beginners -- four weeks, 2 1/2 - 3 hours each time, in a 16' boat their total sum of sailing experience, and by using this method, quite successfully docked the 27' boat they will soon be sailing. He's an engineer and the person who owns the boat has a degree in chemistry, so I'm pretty sure they weren't confused. I'm also pretty sure the boat went into the dock without hitting anything. The BOW will swing the east in this scenario but the stern swings to the south. See, it's a turn.

Push the tiller south, and the stern of the boat will turn south. Standing facing the stern you have a much clearer view of where the boat is going. You don't have to like it, though. That's OK. Personally I think if one has his (or her) head so solidly glued to port and starboard that they can't think about north and south, they're the ones with the problem, but ... whatever.

You don't have to believe this either, but I'm really good at docking and undocking my boat. I only use the "reverse standing" method if I have to motor in reverse for some distance as I find it easier to compensate for the prop walk that way.

You don't have to like the approach. The world will keep on spinning.

scoobert · 11-10-2013, 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

No way!!!!!!!!
When I went to bed last night you guys were having this discussion.
I get up this morning to discover you're still having this discussion.

I have GOT to get a life. I'm going down to the boat to play with my tiller.

Let me know which way to push or pull it

thats for you to decide

what do tillers have to do with anchors?
this forum has more drifts the a hurricane in new jersey.

monte · 11-10-2013, 06:16

A haha I thing last time you broke your rudder they may have put it on front to back Either that or replaced a northern hemisphere rudder with one designed for the SOUTHern hemisphere. Hahha south. Too funny

scoobert · 11-10-2013, 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Push the tiller south, and the stern of the boat will turn south. Standing facing the stern you have a much clearer view of where the boat is going.

if i stand astern, and the boat is facing west, if i push the tiller arm south, and i am backing up, i will turn north.
if i am going forward and push the tiller south the boat will still turn north.
the direction i stand, has nothing to do with anything.

**Dockhead** · 11-10-2013, 06:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Yes, of course it will! Unless you actually try it and get your head out of your ... vocabulary ... you'll never get it. Not my problem. I'm sure you don't need any help backing your boat into the slip, and you're having so much fun this way. No matter how much I explain it you will deliberately misinterpret it, so I'm not going to bother.

but really, if the slip is on the south side of the fairway, and you're backing up and facing the stern, and you push the tiller to the south, the boat will turn to the south and back right up into the slip. I think using NSEW is the best way to explain this -- to an open mind, anyway. The new students on the boat with us Sunday didn't stand around puffing themselves up because they understand port and starboard. They backed the boat up, and pushed the tiller to the south, and the stern of the boat turned south and right into the slip.

That's actually what mattered to them -- not a three day snit because someone didn't use "port and starboard," but getting the boat into the slip safely.

This is surrealistic!

Raku, think about this for just a second, will you, instead of just arguing for the sake of arguing?

If you put the tiller over to the "south" as you say, what direction will the rudder be pointing? You've got it of course -- to the "north". Now which way will the boat go? Surely you're not going to say "south"???

**Hudson Force** · 11-10-2013, 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Since you've never tried it, I don't see how you would know whether or not it is helpful to beginners. However, I just did it with two people who absolutely are beginners -- four weeks, 2 1/2 - 3 hours each time, in a 16' boat their total sum of sailing experience, and by using this method, quite successfully docked the 27' boat they will soon be sailing. He's an engineer and the person who owns the boat has a degree in chemistry, so I'm pretty sure they weren't confused. I'm also pretty sure the boat went into the dock without hitting anything. The BOW will swing the east in this scenario but the stern swings to the south. See, it's a turn.

Push the tiller south, and the stern of the boat will turn south. Standing facing the stern you have a much clearer view of where the boat is going. You don't have to like it, though. That's OK. Personally I think if one has his (or her) head so solidly glued to port and starboard that they can't think about north and south, they're the ones with the problem, but ... whatever.

You don't have to believe this either, but I'm really good at docking and undocking my boat. I only use the "reverse standing" method if I have to motor in reverse for some distance as I find it easier to compensate for the prop walk that way.

You don't have to like the approach. The world will keep on spinning.

It should be clear that no one has contested your ability to steer a fin keeled boat in reverse with great success. There's no question that you would be able to maneuver well into your slip in reverse. The great difficulty seems to be communicating what you could refer to by many names,....left/right, port/starboard, north/south, etc. Changing the the name will not cure the fact that the more standard way they people describe moving the tiller seems to be the opposite of your description. You're correct! The world will keep spinning, but some will that it spins east and some west by their frame of reference as "to or from". If you or I stand, facing in any direction, at the helm, the boat will behave in the same manner if we both move the tiller in the same direction. You seem to be indentifying this direction differently than most. It's a simple miscommunication that seems to have caused a great confusion.

Sailmonkey · 11-10-2013, 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobert

race boats are fun, huh?

Got nothing to do with a race boat ( that you don't have). Just keel shape.
You can race any boat, but a Tayana surprise is not a "race boat"
This is a race boat
https://www.google.com/search?q=open...&bih=416&dpr=2