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Old 10-10-2013, 06:26   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
wouldn't half of these, "my anchor let go" stories be avoided if everyone used a stern anchor?
when anchoring 8' off the shore on the 4th, i used a stern anchor in a 2kt reverse tide, and it worked perfect. i just took it out in the dingy, dropped it, and pulled it tight. i slept all night with that, and was fine in the morning. i have considered two stern anchors, one on each side. 3 points of anchor, hard to mess up...
Just don't anchor like that near me.......or 99.9% of anyone else at anchor for that matter. Proper scope and ground tackle will preventing of the "anchor let go" problems.
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:27   #122
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
Just don't anchor like that near me.......or 99.9% of anyone else at anchor for that matter. Proper scope and ground tackle will preventing of the "anchor let go" problems.
you will have to elaborate on that one. why would this be frowned on?
most of my anchoring will be in uninhabited waters, i like to be alone 70% of the time.
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:34   #123
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

I would not want to be stern anchored if the wind picked up and was blowing 90 degrees to the current. Imagine the load on your anchors if the wind was blowing broadside at 20 or 30 knots. Your boat wont be able to swing into the wind. Then you will end up dragging both anchors sideways. For me, the better answer is to Bahamian moor. Two anchors off the bow, one upstream, one downstream. If the wind blows from a third direction, the boat can still swing into it. In very calm conditions, and no other boats around, the stern anchor is fine. But mother nature can be unpredictable.
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:35   #124
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1. Swinging room. If you don't swing with other vessels you will be a problem.

2. Comfort. If you don't swing into the wind you'll be miserable.

3. Hassle. Wait until your stern anchor is really stuck an you need to get moving.
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:38   #125
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
You dangerously have all that the wrong way around!!!

When reversing a boat, pushing the tiller to port moves the boat to starboard (the bow will swing port, but the general movement of the boat is in the STARBOARD direction).

Oh i hope we're not going to play another game. Very clearly, her stern moved to port. I saw it. Since her slip is on the port side of the fairway, there would have been a collision with another boat if the boat I had been on behaved as you are insisting it must have.

But then, you weren't there ...

This approach just came to mind because I spent last Sunday sailing on a Catalina '27 that belongs to a friend of mine. She know I am systematically testing my back now with slightly heavier tasks. She let me try things little by little (happily, I had no trouble with my back).

She had another couple on the boat who are going to share the boat with her, and she was showing them how she backs the boat into the slip.

She started steering the boat the way I described just inside the two channel markers that go into the Gulfport Municipal Marina. Steering as I described she made a 90º turn to port by pusing the rudder to port. Then she made about a 70º turn to starboard into her fairway, and then increased that turn as she went into the slip, which was to the port side of the boat.

It worked extremely well. I'm not surprised, because she taught me how to do it on her boat, and then we went out and did it with my wheel boat as well.

I'm going to tell you one more time, and then I'm going to give up on you. I don't just come in here and make ship up. I've done everything I've ever said I did. You would have done a lot in six years too if you were sailing your boat every second to third day. I've learned a *whole* lot from the more experienced sailors I see day in and day out.

I do listen selectively, however. One friend who often turns out to be helpful in the end is rarely helpful in the beginning, because the first words out his mouth are *always* "Oh you can't do that." When it turns out that I *can* do whatever it is, both safely and effectively, he does have the courtesy to acknowledge it. For some people, their minds immediately go to something negative first. I just smile of him and think of the little robot waving his arms around saying, "Danger, DANGER Will Robinson!" I'm sorry, but that's what you just made me think of also.

It may be that YOUR boat fights this approach, but maybe you're going too slowly. Maybe you have more prop wash, or more current, where you are. Neither of my boats have handled current well when in reverse, but I really don't know whether that is a standard trait since I've only experienced it on two boats that were powered very significantly differently.

Go ahead and be an alarmist, or change your approach to it. I only know the way my friend taught me, and I've only done it on her boat, but it works on my boat as I described as well. I don't push that idea strongly because my boat is so maneuverable (I credit the specialty prop partly for that) that it may well not be typical.

The thing I will add that I haven't seen addressed recently is the issue of prop wash. It's not much of a problem with my boat, but the way my bow catches the wind is something I must always pay attention to. Boats don't always steer as we expect or wish them to. Whether the issue is prop wash or a bow that catches the wind pretty easily, one's docking plan should work WITH these traits and not against it. Sometimes it's better to move past your slip so when your stern turns into the slip, your boat's innate nature is helping rather than harming you.

Your experience apparently is different than mine, but this isn't something I just read or heard about. I've done it. I've practiced it. She backs her boat into the slip, and that's how she does it. She has a fin keel; it does make steering in tight quarters easier. Maybe you have a full keel, and maybe you have a bigger boat, and maybe it won't work for you.

It would have been nice to hear some version of "That's interesting. It doesn't work well on my boat. My boat is (whatever). What is your friend's boat like?" instead of some version of "I'm either a liar or a danger to others but because I can't do this, no one can."

This is in fact a change I think this board would benefit from -- encouraging people to seek out why person A's experience is different than person B's, instead of pulling out the tacks and hammer in readiness to mount someone's hide to the wall.

I have to assume that people here actually read the other posts, and follow the excellent advice we had I think yesterday, about about practicing with two buoys. That's exactly what I did when I got this boat. I'm a musician. I believe in practice. I also have faith that in addition to trying it in open water first, they will notice that they have to momve the tiller more to port or starboard than they might have expected. That's why smart sailors try new things away from other boats.

I would be interested to hear from people who have tried this with full keel vs. fin keel, because I've done it quite successfully, but both boats have fin keels.

Anybody who takes ANY docking advice without practicing is taking a risk, because each boat responds differently and conditions vary greatly according to tide, current and wind. Current and wind are a challenge here; tide and wind were an issue at my previous marina -- tide because it was tricky just to get into the marina, and the slips hadn't been dredged in years. There may well be some boats that this won't work with. I'm thinking of a friend who has a full keel. It's a bluewater-worthy boat, and although he has many, many years of experience an would be recognized as an expert by anyone, he has a heckuva time backing up his boat. I don't know if he's tried my friend's approach, but when he gets back from his mini-cruise I'm going to see if I can't talk him into trying it.
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:44   #126
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

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Just read the post and was going to comment, but see that I have been beaten to it. That is plain wrong Raku, sorry. The boat does not go to port in reverse with the tiller to port

Coops.

Oh ship. As Holmes would have said, "The game's afoot -- again!"

It happened. You've made it clear that you don't like me, so I could probably say something like "your boat will point up better if your headsail out, and you will immediately think of an exception, and then pound me for not listing that exception, instead of just politely adding to the conversation.

Go read my other response, or (censored).
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:48   #127
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Nor does the wheel act like a tiller if you turn around and face the stern when reversing!

No wonder we see inexperienced charterers moving the wheel/tiller the wrong way when reversing, when boat owners don't get it right!

Really. You've seen charter boats turn around, face the stern, and then use the wheel? Charter? Lots of them? Wow. My friend, and my *expert* boat guy and I are the only people I have ever seen do it.

No. You see people on charter boats struggling with docking because there's a learning curve with every boat. You know that's true.

If I back out of my slip facing the bow, I turn the wheel to the left. If I turn around and face the stern instead of the bow, I turn the wheel to the right. Either way, the rudder does the same thing.

I'm going to get you and Coop a "Pound-o-Matic" app for your interface devices so your kneejerk reactions can be even more rapid. Then at least all of this will be entertaining instead of tedious.
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:53   #128
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
I used to sleep really well at anchor...

Until I started reading on CF and realised how little I knew.

Ignorance was bliss, now I lie awake chewing my nails with half a dozen alarms set and highlighted printouts of anchoring threads strewn about the dining table.

Thanks CF... I think.

Matt

They didn't even list everything that can go wrong. We have seen, in squalls, that one boat starts dragging and then catches another boat's anhor, and then they both start dragging. That one is really hard to untangle even if people are on both boats.

My group of friends and I often raft up. We're going to do it this weekend. But I'm going to make sure I'm on the end so I can break away and re-anchor by myself, hopefully upwind. But then the wind can shift, and often does ...

I have no reason to trust anyone else's anchoring unless I know them well, and if you're close together when the wind shifts, you're going to have fun games before you leave in the morning.

Anchoring out is glorious or no one would ever do it!
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:56   #129
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

Take a deep breath you two. I think there is just some confusion over terminology. Port/starboard vs. left/ right, rudder/tiller. Etc.
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:56   #130
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

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Originally Posted by GILow View Post
Actually, I am thinking about this, and I am pretty sure that the wheel does work intuitively when you face the stern. Turn the wheel to your new starboard (port when facing forward) and the stern should go that way too. Of course, this is entirely hypothetical in my case, but I think I am right here.

Matt


Yes it does; but yes, it also intuitively feels right. It's turning around for the rudder that's really weird, but that weird feeling is SO much relieved by the perceived greater predictability of what the boat will do that the three people I know who do it (including myself but rarely since my boat has a wheel) -- get used to it rapidly.

The boat won't move as fast this way, and it really bothers other boaters (as we 've seen here). One silly man actually called out to my friend and said, "Do you know you're going backwards?" LOL!!
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:57   #131
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

[QUOTE=GILow;1360937]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Nor does the wheel act like a tiller if you turn around and face the stern when reversing!

QUOTE]

With my prop-walk it doesn't matter which way I turn the wheel, the stern will always head off in the same direction. I just use the wheel as a rate limiter.

Matt
That's right: work with the boat's tendencies. There's no point trying to fight them, especially in tight quarters at low speed.
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Old 10-10-2013, 06:57   #132
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

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They didn't even list everything that can go wrong. We have seen, in squalls, that one boat starts dragging and then catches another boat's anhor, and then they both start dragging. That one is really hard to untangle even if people are on both boats.

My group of friends and I often raft up. We're going to do it this weekend. But I'm going to make sure I'm on the end so I can break away and re-anchor by myself, hopefully upwind. But then the wind can shift, and often does ...

I have no reason to trust anyone else's anchoring unless I know them well, and if you're close together when the wind shifts, you're going to have fun games before you leave in the morning.

Anchoring out is glorious or no one would ever do it!
We watched a few boats rafting at anchor this year and gernerally it looked good fun.. On one occasion however in a swell their rigging started fencing.. It sounded horrific!
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:01   #133
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

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I know this is a thread drift, but...
Starboard is always starboard and port is always port. These terms refer to one side of or the other regardless of how you look at it. Thats why we also use left and right terminology. For example, if you say "There is a container ship off the starboard bow", there is no confusion as to where it is, it is off the right side of the boat when facing forward, period end of story. Likewise, you use right and left when referring to directions in relation to people or actions. It is proper to say "turn the wheel to left", as opposed to port. Semantics, I know, but the terms were created to eliminate confusion. We have all heard someone ask "My left or your left?", Never should you hear "My port or your port?".

That's right. That is the great advantage of "port" and "starboard." I tell students that as soon as I can, and tell them that there are such logical reasons for all the specialized terminology, that it all has a reason. You don't say "take that rope" when you mean "take that line" because ropes aren't attached to anything and will not do anything. It goes on and on.

When working on knots I also tell them that a good knot will be more attractive than a bad knot. it will also untie more easily, which is a great help in the dark.
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:01   #134
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

"Then at least all of this will be entertaining instead of tedious."
We can but live in hope!
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Old 10-10-2013, 07:56   #135
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Re: Does constant anchoring wear you down?

Port is always port and starboard is always starboard, no matter the direction your body is facing. That is the beauty of the terminology, when you say port everyone knows which side of the vessel you are talking about. Your stern does not become your bow because you are facing it.
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