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Old 11-11-2014, 12:30   #346
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

Although Rule 5 says a proper lookout must be held at all times as applicable considering all circumstances, does the fact that if you display the proper day signal or anchor light at night make you the stand on vessel, and as such, the other ones must give way?

I agree, probably all of us are not in compliance with Rule 5. Keep in mind, if in a harbor, those rules apply, and Rule 5 may be waived. I see nowhere that the inland rules would waive it, at least not in Canada and the USA.
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Old 11-11-2014, 13:02   #347
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Although Rule 5 says a proper lookout must be held at all times as applicable considering all circumstances, does the fact that if you display the proper day signal or anchor light at night make you the stand on vessel, and as such, the other ones must give way?

I agree, probably all of us are not in compliance with Rule 5. Keep in mind, if in a harbor, those rules apply, and Rule 5 may be waived. I see nowhere that the inland rules would waive it, at least not in Canada and the USA.
Being the stand-on vessel doesn't help you, because the stand-on vessel is still obligated to maneuver itself to avoid an accident once the give-way boat can't avoid the accident by its own maneuver. At sea, you can't proceed with impunity, and indeed you can't even anchor with impunity! You are at all times responsible for avoiding a collision.

To get back to the original question: I think if someone runs into your anchored boat, I wouldn't hope to be entirely freed of responsibility. You should have been keeping some kind of watch, and seeing a vessel about to run into you, you should have at least tried to get the anchor up and move out of the way, attract attention of the other helmsman, etc. Sitting below getting drunk (like we all do at anchor), oblivious to traffic around, is not likely to be considered proper behavior even at anchor, if a collision actually happens.

I admit that I don't keep much if any watch at anchor, and that this is a violation But concerning anchor balls: ALWAYS! Why wouldn't you take two minutes to put an anchor ball up?
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Old 11-11-2014, 13:19   #348
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Being the stand-on vessel doesn't help you, because the stand-on vessel is still obligated to maneuver itself to avoid an accident once the give-way boat can't avoid the accident by its own maneuver. At sea, you can't proceed with impunity, and indeed you can't even anchor with impunity! You are at all times responsible for avoiding a collision.

To get back to the original question: I think if someone runs into your anchored boat, I wouldn't hope to be entirely freed of responsibility. You should have been keeping some kind of watch, and seeing a vessel about to run into you, you should have at least tried to get the anchor up and move out of the way, attract attention of the other helmsman, etc. Sitting below getting drunk (like we all do at anchor), oblivious to traffic around, is not likely to be considered proper behavior even at anchor, if a collision actually happens.

I admit that I don't keep much if any watch at anchor, and that this is a violation But concerning anchor balls: ALWAYS! Why wouldn't you take two minutes to put an anchor ball up?
It might take Jim all of 20 sec. to put up our anchor ball. And, if you have a motoring cone already on deck and ready to go, as carstenb showed us photos of, it takes a similar length of time to raise it.

However, so few people (out here, anyway) do display them, that few people seem to know what they signify or think they're necessary.

There are so many rules that normally law abiding folks ignore, is it not so?

Ann
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Old 11-11-2014, 13:23   #349
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Although Rule 5 says a proper lookout must be held at all times as applicable considering all circumstances, does the fact that if you display the proper day signal or anchor light at night make you the stand on vessel, and as such, the other ones must give way?
.
The rules don't explicitly assign any privilege to anchored vessels - that is they don't state in rule 18 that all vessels underway must stay out of the way of anchored vessels. I think it comes down to the "ordinary practice of seamen" (rule 2) to expect that anchored vessels may not be able to manoeuvre and are essentially fixed objects to be avoided.
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Old 11-11-2014, 13:27   #350
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The rules don't explicitly assign any privilege to anchored vessels - that is they don't state in rule 18 that all vessels underway must stay out of the way of anchored vessels. I think it comes down to the "ordinary practice of seamen" (rule 2) to expect that anchored vessels may not be able to manoeuvre and are essentially fixed objects to be avoided.
Indeed, and note that an anchored vessel is not NUC.
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Old 11-11-2014, 13:29   #351
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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You got that right! and it's a tough notion to meaningfully get your head around! Like, exactly how do you evaluate a new to you doctor?

Ann
I have been away for a few days, so pardon my throw back to page 22. I rub shoulders with doctors every day, lots of them. I can't give you a for sure method, because doctors are people, and some people fool me for years- Charile Cobra was a good example.
I will say that if you can observe when doctors are doing what they are trained to do, and they are calm, confident and consistently give a good outcome, you should be able to trust them.
I am careful around:
Those that say others are always persecuting them.
Those that promise a new revolutionary way to do things that is cheaper and better-
That are quick to speak unkindly about past treatment you have received.
That do not act and dress professionally while at their job.
I guess that all holds true for professional sailors as well....
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Old 11-11-2014, 13:35   #352
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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................ But concerning anchor balls: ALWAYS! Why wouldn't you take two minutes to put an anchor ball up?
I have never seen a recreational boat displaying an anchor ball. Never. I'll admit to not having 40 years of boating but I have 15 or so and repeat I have never seen a recreational boat displaying an anchor ball, required or not. Nor have I ever seen LEO officers citing a boater for not displaying one.

I would wager that nine out of ten, perhaps more recreational boaters would not know what an anchor ball is or what it means.

If I want to know if a boat is anchored I look for the rode or the fact that it's facing into the current and not moving.
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Old 11-11-2014, 13:48   #353
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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I have never seen a recreational boat displaying an anchor ball. ....
I would think that is more locale than anything. I hear that in (northern?) europe it's actually enforced and yotties are more serious about it.

In the US where I am, nobody has a clue about an anchor ball. I've never seen one. IIRC, in an anchorage it's required only for over 20M anyway - so folks like me with smallish boats are... well... not completely remiss in not possessing one. Unless I end up anchoring in the channel... methinks I should display it then (If I had one). But I'm not even close to an expert, so don't listen to me.
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Old 11-11-2014, 14:06   #354
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

all these pages and people are still debating rules verse real life
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Old 11-11-2014, 17:21   #355
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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all these pages and people are still debating rules verse real life
And your point is?
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Old 11-11-2014, 18:18   #356
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

Wasn't being sarcastic. Just really wanting to learn. I am coming from over
50 years of canoeing, and many years of power-boating, but %99 of it has
been on rivers, and streams. Only used an anchor once, and that was way
back when I was a kid, and someone was showing me how to use one.
Haven't used one since.

Running a powerboat up next to the bank and tying off, or just carrying
the canoe to my campsite has probably spoiled me I suppose.

Sailing with friends on Kentucky Lake has given me the sailing bug, but
it's always been dock to dock. No anchoring.

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I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if this is an earnest question. Before the rest of villagers grab their pitchforks and light their torches it might be worth noting what I said (especially the bold):


If you're not onboard, then you can't keep watch, you can't sound fog signals if the vis socks in; you can't sound a warning signal to an approaching vessel; you can't do anything if your vessel drags, etc., etc. Again I wonder if anyone has experienced a collision while they were away from their anchored vessel, or sleeping down below, and what were the consequences?
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Old 11-11-2014, 18:47   #357
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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And your point is?
That in my opinion it is a waste of time of course. Every thread involving rules only shows that people follow them as much as speed limits.
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Old 11-11-2014, 18:54   #358
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Indeed, and note that an anchored vessel is not NUC.
Unless it's aground
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Old 11-11-2014, 19:07   #359
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Wasn't being sarcastic. Just really wanting to learn.
No worries. Experience on this forum has taught me to be a bit defensive.

The colregs really don't have a lot to say about anchoring. You may have already got most of it from reading this thread - lights, shapes, sound signals, don't anchor in narrow channels... oh yeah - keep a lookout
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Old 11-11-2014, 19:41   #360
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

The NZ authorities didn't really make any safety recommendations in that report ...

"Safety Recommendations

It is recommended that in addition to the interested parties referred to in this report, Maritime New Zealand forwards copies of the report to the following:

1. The secretariat of the International Maritime Organisation.

2. The flag state of Morning Haruka."

that was it......??

I would have suggested a traffic separation scheme for the Cook Strait to stop this sort of thing from occuring again...

A crossing situation as described is about as bad as they come... nobody likes altering down on another ship and an alteration to port is OK as long as you have the legs... if you don't have the speed then haul off to port and let the other ship play through.....but then it gets messy if another ship appears from ahead.
Thats why in a good clean overtaking situation you always leave the ship you are overtaking on your port hand.
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