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Old 20-10-2014, 17:14   #181
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

G'day Evans,

Thanks for posting about Claudio Stampi. Reading on his research and application to singlehand racing has explained for me why our watch schedule works so well for us. Thanks again.

Ann
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Old 20-10-2014, 17:18   #182
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Originally Posted by jkleins View Post
If they didn't think everyone should decide for themselves they would have said "everyone much keep a watch every 11.5 minutes" or something to that effect. They used vague and nebulous terms exactly because there are people who feel it is "appropriate" to go below for a period of time and eat dinner and others that feel it is "appropriate" to go to sleep for a period of time and allow their electronic watch to wake them for important events and there is no way that you or I can prejudge that decision. Although you are doing a pretty good job of it. :-)

Jim
You're right that it doesn't say every 11.5 minutes, it says "at all times maintain a proper lookout by sight and hearing...."

It also does not say that the "all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances" can be in place of the "at all times by sight and hearing," but instead says that is allowed "as well as."

It's pretty tough for even the best sailor to "make a full appraisal of the situation and risk of collision" when he's asleep. Clearly, the intent is that a proper lookout by sight and hearing be kept "at all times."

I didn't make this up. Read it for yourself below.

"Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision."
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Old 20-10-2014, 17:23   #183
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

I guess you'll need to add "the WAFI who hasn't slept enough in days.."
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Old 20-10-2014, 17:35   #184
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

It would seem that somebody is suggesting that solo sailing should be banned or declared illegal, same ending, different call.

I assume from this that he does not want to, or cannot, do it himself, therefore others should not be allowed to. If I am wrong then so be it. Been that before.

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Old 20-10-2014, 17:47   #185
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
"at all times by sight and hearing," but instead says that is allowed "as well as."
I think you are giving your own interpretation to continuous & at all times. No blinking, no checking compass etc.

Did you know you can have a continuous dotted line down the centre of the road and a continuous solid line?

"All times" is subtley different from "all the time" or "non-stop."
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Old 20-10-2014, 18:24   #186
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
The French sailors have done quite a bit of research on this -
Google Dr Claudio Stamping to start -
He's a round-the-world sailor, and a Harvard University sleep researcher. Stampiís method, followed by many solo sailors, is based on the best time to sleep, how little sleep one needs to function efficiently, and the optimal length of a nap. He says Solo sailors need to be able to sleep for no more than 10 or 20 minutes at a time.
The British professional single-handed offshore skipper Ellen McArthur frequently relies on the cluster-napping technique she learnt during pre-race training. This is the strategy of breaking up a long sleep into shorter naps - she wakes, quickly checks the boat, sea and weather conditions, makes adjustments if necessary, then resumes her sleep.
This research has been optimized around both the needs of collision avoidance but also top level competitive racing where you must both recognize and react quite quickly to shifts/gusts, and where you must also hand steer (faster) in some conditions.

When you google, here is the first article you will find Dr. Claudio Stampi | Endurance | OutsideOnline.com

And then go back and read my prior posts more carefully because I have already answered your question related to my own procedure.
You beat me to it, I was going to mention polyphasic sleep in response to Atlantical's comment. 20 minutes does not work well for me, but 30 does, it may be one of those things where you just have to experiment to find what works for your body. The key is to sleep every chance you get and not allow yourself to get over tired and start missing your wake up call. There are occasions with a seeming never ending stream of traffic and sail handling where even a quick 15 minutes is helpful, and usually a few 45minute to 1 hour naps after things settle down to get caught up. It takes me about three days to get settled into my offshore routine, then the days just run together until the marks on the chart indicate it is time to prepare for landfall.
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Old 20-10-2014, 18:39   #187
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

As my final comment on this thread - I have to say that I do in fact very ocasionally ( ) drive faster than the posted speed limit. From his tone and comments I presume jtsailingjt must never do that.

And that I really care very little for the legal technicalities and much more for the practical challenges of best avoiding collisions. Fortunately the authorities also seem to care mostly about avoiding collisions and letting the master decide how best to accomplish that.
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Old 20-10-2014, 18:56   #188
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Originally Posted by Coops View Post
It would seem that somebody is suggesting that solo sailing should be banned or declared illegal, same ending, different call.

I assume from this that he does not want to, or cannot, do it himself, therefore others should not be allowed to. If I am wrong then so be it. Been that before.

Coops.
I guess that would be me you're referring to but you know what often happens when you "assume." That part of your post is wrong. I've done a fair amount of sailing by myself and enjoy the solitude and the challenge, mostly just during the daytime though and only for an occasional night, and always only one in a row so i was able to stay awake and keep a watch "at all times" as the current Colregs require. You have no way of knowing whether or not I can or want to singlehand for longer periods and it's irrelevant anyway in a discussion of what the existing Colreg requires of us.

I do think it's pretty irresponsible for anyone to operate a several ton vessel at speeds fast enough to severely damage or sink another ocean going vessel that might be out there, and not even be watching where they're going for significant periods of time, which is essentially what many short handed or singlehanded sailors are accustomed to doing.

If I were King for a day, I'd rewrite the Colregs to allow shorthanded sailors or singlehanded sailors to go to sea, but they'd have a speed limit of about 2 knots (or minimum steerageway) or requirement to be hove to whenever they didn't have anyone aboard awake and on watch. If they wanted to sail fast, they'd have to be awake and watching where they were going. They'd also have a requirement to have both a working AIS transmitter and receiver as well as working radar with alarms set on both during times when they were sleeping or not keeping a watch, and at night they'd be required to have spreader lights and deck lights turned on to make it as easy as possible for others to see them.

My argument is that the current Colreg doesn't allow for not having someone on watch at all times so we get a lot of folks who want to operate their boats shorhandedly creatively "interpreting" a very simply worded Colreg so they can do what they want to do. Some, like Evans, have the proper equipment operating and seem to take his responsibility to others seriously, but no matter how much equipment he has that's supposed to protect him automatically, I'm uneasy about a 50' boat racing along at 8 knots or more with nobody aboard at the helm or even awake even if he's comfortable with it. He may be willing to accept the risk to him that entails but others may not be willing to accept the risk that him doing that causes them to be subject to. Evans has discussed some of the prudent precautions he takes but if we agree that everyone can interpret for themselves what "at all times" means there is no requirement to take any of these precautions or stop some other singlehander from sleeping for many hours at a time racing along at high speed with no alarms operating, clearly creating a hazard to others who might be in his path. I think that the current Colreg, if it were enforced as written, does essentially outlaw shorthanded offshore sailing. I think a new Colreg is needed that would spell out the additional special requirements something like I mentioned above for those who wished to waive the "at all times" included in the current Colreg.
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Old 20-10-2014, 18:56   #189
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

http://www.maritime-executive.com/ar...fer-2014-09-09

Rolls-Royce Drone Ships Challenge $375 Billion Industry: Freight - Bloomberg

If you think singlehanding is so bad wait until you see whats coming in the commercial world. The technology is here, it is only a matter of time.
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Old 20-10-2014, 18:58   #190
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

With regard to that third watchkeeper, for four and a half years I managed a marina in the thick of an area with much long distance cruising. I was a net controller on a Ham Net and thus well aware of the various accidents that happened for hundreds of miles and more. Almost always, it was the third, less knowledgeable and committed crewmember that got the boat in trouble. If it was just a couple, it was always the guy who did so. The gals never put the boat on a beach or hit something else. We can speculate why. But the bottom line is that many third crewmembers create a false sense of security.

My favorite number of crew, which I try to have, is four. But I would rather go with fewer, if the ones I choose are not available, and I have done 20,000 miles singlehanded, as well. Then again, I often have the radar on even during the day, not only for watch keeping, but the better to keep refining my technique and tuning, even now. And guess what, it's a much better watchstander than most humans, when it comes to seeing something small and easily missed. I would actually rather be sailing near a bunch of singlehanders who really had set up their radars correctly, than the average crew that uses only eyeballs and keeps a constant watch....or that doesn't really know how to set up their radar, which I think is usually the case. How many of you say, "I have radar, but I seldom use it," or use the auto feature to tune it? Most, I would bet, and that bothers me.

By the way, for most of the years I singlehanded, I did so insured, and with the knowledge of my insurance company. My boat insurance (boat worth about $50k) was less than half what I paid for insurance for my Mazda pick-up (worth about $10 K) and I think that says something about the odds....the insurance companies are not in the business to lose!

So, I prefer four crewmembers, but will happily, and very carefully, sail alone, too.
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Old 20-10-2014, 19:10   #191
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
As my final comment on this thread - I have to say that I do in fact very ocasionally ( ) drive faster than the posted speed limit. From his tone and comments I presume jtsailingjt must never do that.

And that I really care very little for the legal technicalities and much more for the practical challenges of best avoiding collisions. Fortunately the authorities also seem to care mostly about avoiding collisions and letting the master decide how best to accomplish that.
Nope, I almost always drive a little over the speed limit too, but when I do, I'm always(!) paying very close attention to my driving, not texting or sleeping or eating or doing anything else that might endanger me or others. The fact that my car could have an alarm and automatically brake when I get too close to a car ahead may save me from a collision but does not entitle me to nod off on the highway. As I mentioned earlier, I think sailing shorthanded with nobody on watch for periods of time is much more analogous to driving while texting, than it is to driving slightly faster than the speed limit while paying close attention to where you're going.
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Old 20-10-2014, 19:10   #192
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

I don't accept the notion that if Evans (or someone else with significant experience, say, myself) sails shorthanded, or with a less than perfect watch system, it means that we agree that everyone can or should! I know that sounds very "correct", but the world is just not that equal and it condemns us to a really "lowest common" denominator way of life. I accept the fact that there are many things that others can do much better than I, and that they have earned the right to do things I should not be allowed to do. I also realize that there are a few things that I do better than most, and have done much more than most, and that gives me a certain leeway to use my considered judgement in those areas. Some will disagree, and I will agree that they have the right to disagree!
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Old 20-10-2014, 19:14   #193
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Nope, I almost always drive a little over the speed limit too, but when I do, I'm always(!) paying very close attention to my driving, not texting or sleeping or eating or doing anything else that might endanger me or others. The fact that my car could have an alarm and automatically brake when I get too close to a car ahead may save me from a collision but does not entitle me to nod off on the highway. As I mentioned earlier, I think sailing shorthanded with nobody on watch for periods of time is much more analogous to driving while texting, than it is to driving slightly faster than the speed limit while paying close attention to where you're going.
A better analogy may be driving when you have had ANYTHING alcoholic to drink, but are within the legal limit! Ever do that, anyone? Because if you do, you are accepting a less than optimal way of driving. I never drink and drive, legally or otherwise, but I do singlehand, and I am comfortable that I put far fewer people at risk doing so that the barely legally sober driver, whether slightly over or under the speed limit.
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Old 20-10-2014, 20:11   #194
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
You're right that it doesn't say every 11.5 minutes, it says "at all times maintain a proper lookout by sight and hearing...."

It also does not say that the "all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances" can be in place of the "at all times by sight and hearing," but instead says that is allowed "as well as."

It's pretty tough for even the best sailor to "make a full appraisal of the situation and risk of collision" when he's asleep. Clearly, the intent is that a proper lookout by sight and hearing be kept "at all times."

I didn't make this up. Read it for yourself below.

"Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision."
If you are getting your current opinion from that statement then I guess I am through here as well. No one can be looking and hearing 100% of the time. We all take breaks, get distracted or do other things related to the boat that are not related to avoiding a collision. If you are asleep or doing something else you increase your risk of collision. If you sleep in short bursts with effective electronic assists, as many single handers do, then you are maintaining just as "proper" a watch as any one else.
Jim
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Old 20-10-2014, 20:53   #195
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Re: Do you keep a Constant Lookout?

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I don't accept the notion that if Evans (or someone else with significant experience, say, myself) sails shorthanded, or with a less than perfect watch system, it means that we agree that everyone can or should! I know that sounds very "correct", but the world is just not that equal and it condemns us to a really "lowest common" denominator way of life. I accept the fact that there are many things that others can do much better than I, and that they have earned the right to do things I should not be allowed to do. I also realize that there are a few things that I do better than most, and have done much more than most, and that gives me a certain leeway to use my considered judgement in those areas. Some will disagree, and I will agree that they have the right to disagree!
So if it's OK for you and Evans but not some others, who gets to decide where that line should be drawn?
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