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Old 14-07-2016, 17:52   #76
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

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Originally Posted by topmast View Post
Lodesman Don't recall what the shapes/flags? were. I hauled up and tacked under power (faster with the started engine) chatted with a crew on the stern as they went by. He pointed out that they were flying shapes in the mess of antenna above the bridge and mentioned engine tests What do I know. Just glad my taxes help to train such friendly personnel
You had a conversation with crew on the quarterdeck, while they were going by at 20 kts? Must have been quick.
Was it one of the small (100 foot) Orca training vessels?
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Old 14-07-2016, 17:55   #77
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

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When do signal halyards constitute "rigging"? Since the aforementioned signals would have been hoisted on selfsame, they would not have been responsible for obscuring said signals.
Just using old slang where the mast was the signal support post and the various hoists were referred to as riggings. Like hoist the broom up in the rigging to show we are finally home and it was a clean sweep. Do not want to get into a pedantic diatribe about terminology. Tis what we called it; tis what it is.
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Old 14-07-2016, 18:27   #78
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

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Tis what we called it; tis what it is.
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Old 14-07-2016, 19:35   #79
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

What an interesting topic.

We were Navy trained and hence try to do the right thing. We always fly an anchor ball. (An inflatable beach ball covered in netting and spray painted black and hoisted on a spare masthead halyard to hang in the fore triangle.

We have just transversed the inside passage from Southport to Morton Bay in southern Queensland. To say we were appalled at the lack of courtesy by fellow mariners is an understatement. Many captains disregarded the channel rules and passed on the incorrect side. Boats overtaking at unsafe speed and distances while creating huge wash without consideration of the consequences. As for anchor lights it seems they have become extinct in this part of the world.

If this disregard for common courtesy and rules were displayed while on the roads I am sure there would be a large public outcry and heavy fines introduced. We do not need more regulations - just follow the ones that have been in place for so many years so we can all enjoy boating in safety.

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Old 14-07-2016, 20:33   #80
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

I use a scotsman ,what we call a big round fender. Slip it into a black plastic bag and hang on the forestay. make the anchoring legal and if they have to ask what's that? at least they learn something
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Old 14-07-2016, 20:49   #81
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

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Originally Posted by sapient sue View Post
What an interesting topic.

We were Navy trained and hence try to do the right thing. We always fly an anchor ball. (An inflatable beach ball covered in netting and spray painted black and hoisted on a spare masthead halyard to hang in the fore triangle.

We have just transversed the inside passage from Southport to Morton Bay in southern Queensland. To say we were appalled at the lack of courtesy by fellow mariners is an understatement. Many captains disregarded the channel rules and passed on the incorrect side. Boats overtaking at unsafe speed and distances while creating huge wash without consideration of the consequences. As for anchor lights it seems they have become extinct in this part of the world.

If this disregard for common courtesy and rules were displayed while on the roads I am sure there would be a large public outcry and heavy fines introduced. We do not need more regulations - just follow the ones that have been in place for so many years so we can all enjoy boating in safety.

Sue
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Old 14-07-2016, 20:55   #82
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

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Originally Posted by sapient sue View Post
What an interesting topic.

We were Navy trained and hence try to do the right thing. We always fly an anchor ball. (An inflatable beach ball covered in netting and spray painted black and hoisted on a spare masthead halyard to hang in the fore triangle.

We have just transversed the inside passage from Southport to Morton Bay in southern Queensland. To say we were appalled at the lack of courtesy by fellow mariners is an understatement. Many captains disregarded the channel rules and passed on the incorrect side. Boats overtaking at unsafe speed and distances while creating huge wash without consideration of the consequences. As for anchor lights it seems they have become extinct in this part of the world.

If this disregard for common courtesy and rules were displayed while on the roads I am sure there would be a large public outcry and heavy fines introduced. We do not need more regulations - just follow the ones that have been in place for so many years so we can all enjoy boating in safety.

Sue
Consider yourself fortunate that you'r not on Sydney harbour, it's just like that only constant.
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Old 14-07-2016, 21:06   #83
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

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I'm sorry if my attitude disturbs you, but I still believe that it represents a fairly nonhazardous situation, one which is encountered routinely and nearly universally, and which has not resulted in numerous collisions, or even near misses. I am convinced of this since in all my years of sailing, I have never seen the cone displayed, and from the posts above, this seems to be true for most sailors in this part of the world (non-European waters in general).

I also point out that I didn't suggest that I was only referring to interactions with motor vessels. The same result is reached: the unfairly burdened vessel has to avoid you when legally he did not need to do so. Big deal... we sailors do this routinely, and in many crowded venues, many of us have learned to never completely trust our fellows to follow COLREGS. Only while racing have I ever really expected others to behave properly, and even there a degree of circumspection is beneficial to one's topside paint! And expecting the average flash m/y to follow the rules is folly IMO and IME. Some do, many do not.

I of course agree that COLREGS is clear about the requirement; no question about that. But I wonder how many of the vessels that you have encountered whilst displaying the cone even saw it, let alone understood its meaning and then responded appropriately?

Again, I apologize if my attitude disturbs you; I have tried to be honest about it.

Jim
Have to agree with you on the cone Jim, in 30 years of sailing I cannot remember ever seeing one, or if I did comprehending why it was there, and had to consult the ColRegs Rule 25e to reacquaint myself. I reread them every couple of years but I guess the cone thing has never taken in my mind.

I have read a lot of your posts mate and your "attitude" comes across OK with me, some folks are just unnaturally sensitive and will break into print without a lot of provocation.
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Old 15-07-2016, 00:05   #84
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

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I have never actually seen a day shape other than on commercial vessels. I won't argue their legality, but I have also never seen or heard of an insurance company making it an issue either.
Ditto (in the context of the OP being from Colorado).

In the USA, never seen a pleasure boat use one and never heard of an insurance claim denied due to failure to display one.

Not that the authorities couldn't fine you or the insurance company deny a claim, it's just not a concern.
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Old 15-07-2016, 00:30   #85
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

For me it's pretty much irrelevant what you use or do not use as long as you stay inside the territorial waters of the US, but be warned it's not acceptable everywhere. Freedom of the seas doesn't mean stupidity or arrogance... Just saying

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Old 15-07-2016, 07:28   #86
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

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Originally Posted by Rhapsody-NS27 View Post
I have not heard of many people using day shapes but seeing how cheap they are with Defender, no reason not to have them. I'll order the ball and inverted cone.

Thanks all for this info.
Make sure when you open the package that they sent you an inverted cone... if its a 'pointy end up' one its one designed for the Australian market.. seems nobody buys them down there...

That said I have never ever seen an inverted cone outside of the Solent. And I have only very very rarely seen anchor balls on the smaller class of yacht.

However.... while we may choose not to show the daymarks who neglects to show the appropriate lights at night? Damn few, I'd wager.
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Old 15-07-2016, 08:55   #87
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

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However.... while we may choose not to show the daymarks who neglects to show the appropriate lights at night? Damn few, I'd wager.
I think this is the common sense reason why day shapes don't get used.

It's very plausible that the helmsman may not see an unlit boat on a pitch black night.

If you run into the side of an anchored 40' boat during the day, you are going to have a hard time claiming it was because the proper day shape wasn't shown.

It may be that way back when motors were first being installed on ships that day shapes made sense but in the modern world they are outdated (certain commercial ships such as dredges and tows exempted).
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Old 15-07-2016, 19:31   #88
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

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However.... while we may choose not to show the daymarks who neglects to show the appropriate lights at night? Damn few, I'd wager.
There's a disturbing trend for newbie yacht owners - even liveaboards - to sprinkle cheap hardware store solar garden lights around the periphery of their boats in Australia. I had to mock one of them mercilessly for about three months before he stumped for a proper anchor light that could be seen for the requisite two miles.

Considering they cost about $25.00 there's no excuse for not having one.

And as for day shapes, the only time I've seen a black ball used was on a Qld registered yacht anchored in the middle of the Lane Cove River in Sydney. Never spotted a cone yet on a non-commercial boat.
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Old 15-07-2016, 19:33   #89
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Do use Day Shapes

We show the ball at anchor and cone while steaming with sails set
And I'm always amazed how few do
But I'm also amazed by the lack of flag etiquette as well



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Old 16-07-2016, 08:01   #90
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Re: Do use Day Shapes

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The black discs are $15 at Defender
In Europe, and the U.K. black cones and balls are required by law, to be aboard all boats, at all times, and used. Not only is it bad form not to use them, substantial fines can be levied. In the US, they are rarely seen on a cruising boat, but they are nevertheless required by Col. Regs, CG-169, in both Inland and International waters.
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