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Old 31-01-2015, 17:20   #871
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
If you are getting swayed by the multihull promoters on the subject of multi performance. better read this for a dose of reality:

ARC as a way to look at how different types of boats sail

We were out for a sail on our PDQ 36 last Sunday. We absolutely smoked a Catalina 42. Same point of sail going in the same direction both out for a leisurely Sunday sail. We were doing 7-9 knots and I would guess he was making between 5-6. Amazing when you consider he is 6' longer and carries over twice as much sail area. Life is good!
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Old 31-01-2015, 20:05   #872
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
We were out for a sail on our PDQ 36 last Sunday. We absolutely smoked a Catalina 42. Same point of sail going in the same direction both out for a leisurely Sunday sail. We were doing 7-9 knots and I would guess he was making between 5-6. Amazing when you consider he is 6' longer and carries over twice as much sail area. Life is good!
Well, I remember once "absolutely smoking" Windward Passage in my Yankee 30. WP was at the time the fastest boat in the SF bay area. We were both out for a Sunday sail, going the same direction and we just blew by them. Amazing when you consider that they were around 40 feet longer and god knows how big their sails are.

I did notice that a lot of the crew seemed to be eating lunch and not paying much attention to sailing... shows that not only is WP a slow boat, but that the crew was a bunch of wankers! Doesn't it???

Point of this otherwise silly story is that this kind of report means very little, unless both boats were racing, in equal sort of bottom cleanliness state, and with equally attentive crews. I've "beaten" a lot of cats at various times in my cruising mono; I've been soundly trounced by others. Doesn't mean much about whether cats or monos are faster, better, sexier, better looking... only that at that time in that spot with those wind and sea conditions, one boat or the other was faster.

Cats almost always have better dance floors, though...

Jim
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Old 31-01-2015, 20:10   #873
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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Well, I remember once "absolutely smoking" Windward Passage in my Yankee 30. WP was at the time the fastest boat in the SF bay area. We were both out for a Sunday sail, going the same direction and we just blew by them. Amazing when you consider that they were around 40 feet longer and god knows how big their sails are.

I did notice that a lot of the crew seemed to be eating lunch and not paying much attention to sailing... shows that not only is WP a slow boat, but that the crew was a bunch of wankers! Doesn't it???

Point of this otherwise silly story is that this kind of report means very little, unless both boats were racing, in equal sort of bottom cleanliness state, and with equally attentive crews. I've "beaten" a lot of cats at various times in my cruising mono; I've been soundly trounced by others. Doesn't mean much about whether cats or monos are faster, better, sexier, better looking... only that at that time in that spot with those wind and sea conditions, one boat or the other was faster.

Cats almost always have better dance floors, though...

Jim
Good for you Jim. Seems as if I hit a nerve?
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Old 31-01-2015, 20:13   #874
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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We were out for a sail on our PDQ 36 last Sunday. We absolutely smoked a Catalina 42
i'll take the catalina 42 .. you can keep the PDQ .. cheers
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Old 31-01-2015, 20:34   #875
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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i'll take the catalina 42 .. you can keep the PDQ .. cheers
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Old 31-01-2015, 21:04   #876
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

how quickly monos turn away when see then cant beat condomaran.

yetereday around 45-50 feet fully canvassed mono tried to show how to get condomaran in around 13 kn wind.

Hahahaha. I have used new trick I learned and started gaining and quickly that mono turned away. And had 1 reef as i was about to go on the open ocean practising passaging.
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Old 31-01-2015, 22:52   #877
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

And just as you are making generalities about boats so are you about women. I have been on both and I far prefer the monohulls


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Old 01-02-2015, 05:20   #878
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

We were so close, had made several offers on a Csy44, thought about a morgan 41, too small, looked at a few 44-47footers, ended up with a fantastic Athena 38 Cat for almost the same money, Life is good on. Cat! We enjoy the jeck out of monos, we really do, but for liveaboard and cruising it's tough to compare.

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Old 01-02-2015, 09:20   #879
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

I have learned alot on threads such as these. One of the things I have learned is that there are good multi's and dog multi's just as there are mono's which are good and those that would love to sink. Great boats in either category, and bad ones in both. Keeps me from the "I just have to have XXX because it will do what my boat cannot." syndrome.
Will my next boat have more than one hull? Probably. Variety is the spice of life.
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:12   #880
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Great Newt, I do hope you do buy a cat.
And in keeping with my original question I would be willing to bet that you will not go back.
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Old 01-02-2015, 12:52   #881
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

By Capt.*Alan Hugenot

***********

Get any group of boat owners talking and, the question often comes up,*Which hull is better, a catamaran or a mono-hull

*

Believers from both religions will recite their favorite gospel on how their chosen hull shape ? catamaran, tri-maran or mono-hull ? is obviously superior, as foretold by the ancient prophets. But the real answer is one that the zealots don?t like: it depends on what you want to do with the boat.

*

In my experience as a naval architect, neither hull is flatly superior. One of my recent tasks was to provide technical consultation for a design competition involving a multi-mission coastal patrol craft, which pairs off a mono-hull against a tri-maran. Our consensus is that the best hull form depends on the mission. When the work is offshore, the mono-hull performs best. When the work is inshore on lakes, bays and sounds, the tri-maran is a better match.

*

As a commercial captain, I skippered numerous craft of both types and found that neither hull is superior for all conditions on all waters. Instead, all hull forms are distinctly different animals, and each is designed to excel in different conditions.

*

Trying to determine which is superior is similar to debating whether pelicans or sea gulls are the better bird. Pelicans are great at fishing, but gulls are more useful for picking through garbage or decorating parked cars. On every city beach lurk some folks who are enraptured with the gulls, and ignore the pelicans. Likewise, many mono-hull lovers have never been aboard a multi-hull and tend to ignore them out of hand.

*

Unfortunately, die hard believers from both camps, ignorant of the virtues of the opposing hull form, and overlooking the evidence, often blindly imagine that all boaters have goals, needs and performance desires that match their own. And their arguments can be prejudicial.

*

An honest technical appraisal will show that the final decision as to the optimum hull form has little to do with speed and cost, two issues that tend to dominate the debate. Rather, the size of the vessel, its intended use and the waters on which it operates are the most important factors. And among those three, size is the most important.

*

There is nothing more exhilarating than sailing a small cat along a beach in an off-shore breeze, where the water is flat and the wind is strong. The performance is magnificent, and that kind of excitement can only be achieved in a small lightweight cat. But, as the fetch of the wind lengthens and the wind speeds increase, so do the rollers, and small cats can be difficult to operate in heavier seas.

*

To get the optimum ride, we might move up to those excellent Australian-bred International 18 Skiffs. These slightly heavier hulls utilize all the best features of catamarans and mono-hulls, with outriggers and hiking crewmembers, and they are designed to handle higher seas and stronger winds. But if the winds increase above 25 knots, or if we move into open ocean for a more extended passage, a large and heavily-built mono-hull is by far the best choice. People who favor ultra-light designs like to point out that their vessels cost less, and that the successful solo-circumnavigation racers are all ultra-lights, many of which are multi-hulled. But these boats also wear out after just one or two racing seasons, and most distance cruisers need vessels that will last a bit longer.

*

On the other hand, mono-hull people tend to cite the safety and performance their heavy hulls afford in a storm, but conveniently ignore the advantages of speed and a stable platform, which multi-hulls so easily provide on the calmer inshore waters. And isn?t that where most of us spend the majority of our cruising?

*

In summary, it is my opinion that nothing out-performs a large power cat for cruising on a river delta or protected inland bay. But for extended ocean cruising off shore, or inland sailing in a heavy chop, nothing keeps up with a large sailing mono-hull.

*

Personally, I?d like to own several of each.



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Old 01-02-2015, 13:31   #882
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Yes there are advantages and disadvantages for both of them which is why I don't get all "religious" about them. A good high-performance multihull will be very expensive to buy, whereas decent mono's suitable for cruising are abundant at a fraction of the price. Forget trying to find slip space for a multi in most of California too, and if you can find one, expect to pay a fortune for it. Where a good high-performance multihull shines when cruising, is being able to sail in little wind without the motor, loping along comfortably at ten knots in conditions that will beat you up and exhaust you on a mono. And lastly, there is nothing like the feeling of flight you experience on a good high-performance cat or tri when sailing at high speed - on any point of sail. Its like being on rails, and for me, the only thing it compares to is surfing in good waves on a board I love.
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Old 01-02-2015, 14:01   #883
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

To SimonV - you are the man to ask then:

why is mono safer than cat (as per your thesis) in running away from weather as a storm strategy and why.

To me, I can see cat being safer as one can better control speed via drogue, therefore avoiding some breakers.
broaching seem more likely in mono as less directional stability.

i have not been in this weather yet, but preparing boat and me for it.
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Old 01-02-2015, 14:15   #884
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
To SimonV - you are the man to ask then:

why is mono safer than cat (as per your thesis) in running away from weather as a storm strategy and why.

To me, I can see cat being safer as one can better control speed via drogue, therefore avoiding some breakers.
broaching seem more likely in mono as less directional stability.

i have not been in this weather yet, but preparing boat and me for it.
I don't believe this was Simon talking, I believe he was quoting Capt. Alan Hugenut's
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Old 01-02-2015, 17:43   #885
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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And just as you are making generalities about boats so are you about women. I have been on both and I far prefer the monohulls


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I my specific case my lady is very much the opposite to you. She will not go out cruising in a monohull. Just reinforced it to me yesterday after her afternoon out sailing on a monohull. She hates the dungeon.
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