Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-05-2014, 20:57   #526
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tampa Florida
Boat: R.WOODS 36ft CATAMARAN
Posts: 505
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by u4ea32 View Post
If I had unlimited funds, I would only sail very high performance multihulls. When I go on OPBs, its virtually always a very high performance multihull.

The thing is, I do have a specific, finite amount of money, to buy, to operate, to maintain, to and to live on.

In order to live and cruise, there is an amount of volume, and an amount of payload mass: living space and weight of people, clothes, dinghies, fuel, water, food, equipment, ...

The cheapest way to enclose that volume, and provide the water plane area to absorb weight changes, is a monohull. The closer to a sphere, the better: minimize surface area (construction material), maximize moment of inertia, and therefore minimize the amount of structural material. Therefore, the least material, the least weight, the best performance potential.

Yes, performance is dominated by weight, far more than shape.

We all know that most cruising boats are pigs to sail. Way, way to heavy, too much wetted surface, too little sail area, and generally horrible helm feel. Nice helm feel is exemplified by Soling or Tornado: light, responsive helm, where the performance changes quickly, so its fun to sail, instead of just a slow, expensive, uncomfortable way to get around.

Also, the secret of sailing multihulls in big seaways is to keep only one hull in the water. That really drives the load and cost through the roof, and eliminates any sort of "comfortable cruising."

So, while if one was comparing off-the-shell cruising boats, such as Gunboats, Lagoons, Farriers, Jenneaus, Hunters, Hinkleys, and so on, they all are such horrible trade-offs: Gunboats and Farriers are fast and fun, but only if you have an unlimited budget and/or don't take anyone or anything with you; The others -- mono or multi -- are sluggish pigs.

Therefore, for me, a mono is the way to go. But a custom mono, not one derived from a race boat (such as a retired TP52, say), or designed to look like a race boat but handle like a barge (all production monos and multis this side of, say, a Gunboat).

Custom mono so its very light, so the loads are very low, so its very fun, yet can still carry the volume and weight needed, at the lowest cost to build, own, and sail.
La de da
__________________

__________________
georgetheleo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 21:13   #527
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder View Post
SNIP

Some generic cat performance numbers to consider
Beam to length ratio
Less than 10.5 Slow- go buy a mono
10.5 11.5 Baseline for good sailing
12.5 - 14.0 Mod to high performance
14.0 20 Racing cat
Bruce numbers
1 Slow
1.3 1.4 Good cruising
1.5 1.9 Very fast
Wondering about the source of this
__________________

__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 21:17   #528
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,416
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Gee. How many bedrooms/berths does one need? And they are mostly configured for couples. Good for short-term party outings, I suppose. Are they any good for long-range cruises?
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 21:58   #529
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
Wondering about the source of this
Acquired some time ago.

http://www.freeflowcatamarans.com.au/FF46.aspx

Others who are expert might be able to comment.(need Barry ) I am not one. Seems reasonably valid to me. Quite a number of cats have seen a documented lift in performance after adding length to the sterns.

Seawind 1000 for one. Weight is one of the other factors and one can also expect the Seawind's have improved their performance with lighter weight by moving to vacuum bagging technology.

Charles Kantor's numbers in his book Cruising Catamaran Communique are different and more general. His rule of thumb for fineness ratio in catamarans .

16:1 Race boats
10:1 racer/cruiser (could go either way depending on other factors0
8:1 cruiser
4:1 monohull

Numbers don't really bother me but some think they are everything particually those with a racing bent..

A comment of Kantor's

"Obviously even a small increase in average speed would be of an enormous advantage. The reality is that any of the presently available production cruising catamarans can increase that 5 knot monohull speed easily to six knots and possibly to seven without sacrificing one iota of comfort or convenience. Quite the contrary. Because the catamaran does not heel and is more sea kindly, you can go faster in rough seas and be far more comfortable than your fellow cruisers on their monohulls."

I would think those numbers of his are possibly somewhat out of date and more relevant to the traditional older bluewater designs as certainly some of the newer productions designs (Bendi's etc) have changed the numbers somewhat.

Numbers are just an indicator and a long way down my personal list as I search for a cat to live aboard and cruise.
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 22:39   #530
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Gee. How many bedrooms/berths does one need?
Thats my problem with cats. Too many bedrooms/berths. I just need one for me and a guest. His and hers.

Like this Mahe 36:



Only with this too:

__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2014, 22:58   #531
Registered User
 
markpierce's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: M/V Carquinez Coot
Posts: 3,416
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Thats my problem with cats. Too many bedrooms/berths. I just need one for me and a guest. His and hers.

Like this Mahe 36:



Only with this too:

Great for two couples. But how about singles without partners? Or is that what's about single sleeping bags? (Did plenty of that backpacking.)
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2014, 00:51   #532
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,456
Images: 69
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by u4ea32 View Post

Also, the secret of sailing multihulls in big seaways is to keep only one hull in the water. That really drives the load and cost through the roof, and eliminates any sort of "comfortable cruising."
The internet is SUCH a great source of information! But surely it would be more comfortable with no hulls in the water?
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2014, 01:35   #533
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,084
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
[[when talking to 44c]]Yea, see, that's the thing. I just don't believe you. Never known anyone to make a passage like that and arrive with the interior and all their bedding and clothing soaked. You keep making statements like that, and it just hurts your credibility. Let's stick with solid indesputable recorded data, like the ARC numbers you refuse to discuss.
I have spoken with 44C (and looked over his boat - what an excellent job), and spoken with another yachtie who did the same trip at the same time. He confirms 44C's account, still think its okay to call him a liar? Perhaps an apology is in order.
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2014, 06:30   #534
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

How about a steel cat? any? seems cheaper to make.
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2014, 06:41   #535
One of Those
 
Canibul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Turks and Caicos Islands
Boat: Catalac 12M
Posts: 3,209
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

was that a French design for threesomes in each bow? With two foot fetishers in the forepeaks...
__________________
Expat life in the Devil's Triangle:
http://2gringos.blogspot.com/
Canibul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2014, 06:45   #536
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,084
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
How about a steel cat? any? seems cheaper to make.
Seriously?
__________________
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2014, 07:01   #537
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
The internet is SUCH a great source of information! But surely it would be more comfortable with no hulls in the water?
Thread winner.
__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2014, 07:08   #538
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,765
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
The internet is SUCH a great source of information! But surely it would be more comfortable with no hulls in the water?
Off course, like the America's cup cats, well over the waves
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2014, 07:19   #539
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Seriously?
lets try
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2014, 07:22   #540
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
How about a steel cat? any? seems cheaper to make.
Been there, done that.

IMG_0367.JPG photo - Tom Rowland photos at pbase.com

http://www.pbase.com/tommy2guns/image/155618496.jpg



__________________

__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hull, multihull

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I have heard of people going back and forth from USA to MX and back and no a Passport shorebird2 The Sailor's Confessional 33 02-06-2014 05:29
Multihullers, Tell Us What You Like About Monohulls Southern Star Monohull Sailboats 92 19-12-2011 13:58
ANybody ever send an inverter/charger back for rebuild repair? Chief Engineer Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 17 22-02-2008 15:57
Bahamas Is Still There and Nicer than Ever CSY Man General Sailing Forum 20 22-07-2004 09:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.