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Old 11-05-2014, 11:46   #496
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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Originally Posted by TeddyDiver View Post
A bit drift
There are many much much better passagemakers than Nordhavns. Pigs IMHO
Sorry owners
I can't think of any. They are a little slow but that's how they get so much range. They cruise at 8 or 9 knots which gives good fuel economy and 200 miles every single day. A few years ago a Nordhavn travelled the 2000 miles from Hawaii to Majuro. He motored there in 9 days while I sailed in 14.
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:33   #497
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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Mine Salty..

I love that! And posts for a bimini!
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:35   #498
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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I can't think of any.
Jongert if ya are loaded or some of the other Dutch yards (dozens of them)
A Dashew's Windhorse, A Tad Robert design PL and much more..
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:40   #499
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

If I had unlimited funds, I would only sail very high performance multihulls. When I go on OPBs, its virtually always a very high performance multihull.

The thing is, I do have a specific, finite amount of money, to buy, to operate, to maintain, to and to live on.

In order to live and cruise, there is an amount of volume, and an amount of payload mass: living space and weight of people, clothes, dinghies, fuel, water, food, equipment, ...

The cheapest way to enclose that volume, and provide the water plane area to absorb weight changes, is a monohull. The closer to a sphere, the better: minimize surface area (construction material), maximize moment of inertia, and therefore minimize the amount of structural material. Therefore, the least material, the least weight, the best performance potential.

Yes, performance is dominated by weight, far more than shape.

We all know that most cruising boats are pigs to sail. Way, way to heavy, too much wetted surface, too little sail area, and generally horrible helm feel. Nice helm feel is exemplified by Soling or Tornado: light, responsive helm, where the performance changes quickly, so its fun to sail, instead of just a slow, expensive, uncomfortable way to get around.

Also, the secret of sailing multihulls in big seaways is to keep only one hull in the water. That really drives the load and cost through the roof, and eliminates any sort of "comfortable cruising."

So, while if one was comparing off-the-shell cruising boats, such as Gunboats, Lagoons, Farriers, Jenneaus, Hunters, Hinkleys, and so on, they all are such horrible trade-offs: Gunboats and Farriers are fast and fun, but only if you have an unlimited budget and/or don't take anyone or anything with you; The others -- mono or multi -- are sluggish pigs.

Therefore, for me, a mono is the way to go. But a custom mono, not one derived from a race boat (such as a retired TP52, say), or designed to look like a race boat but handle like a barge (all production monos and multis this side of, say, a Gunboat).

Custom mono so its very light, so the loads are very low, so its very fun, yet can still carry the volume and weight needed, at the lowest cost to build, own, and sail.
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:51   #500
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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Originally Posted by u4ea32 View Post
SNIP

Gunboats and Farriers are fast and fun, but only if you have an unlimited budget and/or don't take anyone or anything with you; The others -- mono or multi -- are sluggish pigs.

SNIP
Wonder if you have ever been on either of these boats.

There is a huge difference in the cost of a Gunboat compared to a Farrier, be it tri or cat. There are also many other production multihulls (and monohulls for that matter) that do not require unlimited funds.

What the OP asked was if there were folks like myself that had originally sailed monohulls (about the only thing around when I started sailing in the 1960s) who had switched to multihulls (I now own a cat) and switched back to a monohull.

Speculation about some phantom boat you don't own yet is a lot of thread drift.
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Old 11-05-2014, 13:06   #501
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Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

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Originally Posted by u4ea32 View Post
We all know that most cruising boats are pigs to sail. Way, way to heavy, too much wetted surface, too little sail area, and generally horrible helm feel. ...
I did not know about that. There are many 40/41ft monohull performance cruisers the weight about 7/8000kg and have way over 100m2 of sail for less than what you can build any custom boat of the same size. I thought those were no pigs and were funny to sail.

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Also, the secret of sailing multihulls in big seaways is to keep only one hull in the water. That really drives the load and cost through the roof, and eliminates any sort of "comfortable cruising."
Yes, specially with cruising cats

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Originally Posted by u4ea32 View Post
So, while if one was comparing off-the-shell cruising boats, such as Gunboats, Lagoons, Farriers, Jenneaus, Hunters, Hinkleys, and so on, they all are such horrible trade-offs: Gunboats and Farriers are fast and fun, but only if you have an unlimited budget and/or don't take anyone or anything with you; The others -- mono or multi -- are sluggish pigs.
Yes, they are all pigs to sail. The production boats we can find on the market are all the same and the choice is very limited

Quote:
Originally Posted by u4ea32 View Post
Therefore, for me, a mono is the way to go. But a custom mono, not one derived from a race boat (such as a retired TP52, say), or designed to look like a race boat but handle like a barge (all production monos and multis this side of, say, a Gunboat). Custom mono so its very light, so the loads are very low, so its very fun, yet can still carry the volume and weight needed, at the lowest cost to build, own, and sail.
You mean like this, I mean a cruising boat designed to look like a race boat and that sails like a barge?:

And you have chosen a designer to do that wonder or are you going to design it yourself?
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Old 11-05-2014, 13:26   #502
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Powerboats Across the Oceans

I was NOT trying to insinuate that no powerboats are capable of crossing the oceans. In fact many have, and many of these have been done in 'controlled/monitored manners' as 'proof' that they can do it. Numbers of these crossings have been 'publicity events'.

Ultimately its a question of carrying enough fuel, and monitoring that fuel usage carefully. And choosing the weather so that extra times are not encountered.

Sailboats in general are NOT constrained by this 'fuel problem' , so most sailboats can cross any ocean, even when major delays in the crossing times are encountered
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Old 11-05-2014, 13:38   #503
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Nordhavn at Sea

How about this Nordhavn at sea?



Need for Roll Stabilization
We don't see that many photos of 'salty old vessels' in their element. Here's one experiencing problems with its power supply to its stabilizing system.

Sure makes one believe in having a back-up system that's not dependant on an active power supply.

...and this isn't even a BIG sea

Click image for larger version

Name:	Nordhavn Rolling at sea.jpg
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ID:	80988

Sailboats don't require roll stabilizers either, but it might be advisable for a power only vessel that wants to go out into the ocean
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Old 11-05-2014, 13:53   #504
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Drop the Mainsail

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Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
If you really want to see what Cats sail like in bad weather,

Google, Sailing Catamarans in Rough Seas, You just might be surprised,

Take note how steady and level the Dinghy is, hanging off the Transom, In those really bad sea video's,

Occasionally you get a bit of a thud and a sideways roll as you go over the top of a wave, Its not severe in any way, At About 30 degrees to the wave line,

This is me on my Hammock, I spent most of my time either sitting or laying or sleeping on it the whole time I was at sea after leaving Fiji, About a Month solid sailing all up,

Even in very bad weather, It never got wet from the sea, Sleeping, I just used a full chest harness connected so I would not go over the side if I fell off it or got washed off it,

Single handing on my 34 foot Cat is Boring as Batshit, It drives itself, Its Plug and Play,
Any thing over about 20 knots, I dropped the Mainsail and tied it down,

Then its all Genoa, All done from the Cockpit, I dont have to go on deck for anything after that,, In any kind of weather,....


I happen to have read this posting of yours, and I offer a mainless rig that many have poo-pooed for its emphasis on a genoa sail. Plus I have a mizzen for balance,....ever sail a ketch under headsail and mizzen,...no mainsail?
Click image for larger version

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Click image for larger version

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Aftmast rigs??? - Page 29 - Boat Design Forums
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Old 11-05-2014, 13:54   #505
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Re: Nordhavn at Sea

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Originally Posted by beiland View Post
How about this Nordhavn at sea?



Need for Roll Stabilization
We don't see that many photos of 'salty old vessels' in their element. Here's one experiencing problems with its power supply to its stabilizing system.

Sure makes one believe in having a back-up system that's not dependant on an active power supply.

...and this isn't even a BIG sea

Attachment 80988

Sailboats don't require roll stabilizers either, but it might be advisable for a power only vessel that wants to go out into the ocean

Of course it's rolling. Didn't you notice it's missing a hull:-)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Old 11-05-2014, 15:15   #506
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Re: Drop the Mainsail

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Originally Posted by beiland View Post
[/U]
I happen to have read this posting of yours, and I offer a mainless rig that many have poo-pooed for its emphasis on a genoa sail. Plus I have a mizzen for balance,....ever sail a ketch under headsail and mizzen,...no mainsail?
Attachment 80989

Attachment 80990

Aftmast rigs??? - Page 29 - Boat Design Forums
One thing for sure about off the wall rigs is they don't help resale value.
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Old 11-05-2014, 15:30   #507
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Re: Monohull motorsailer, Alden 57

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Pure power vessels are not for crossing oceans.
You forgot to tell these people that: DOMINO 20

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Old 11-05-2014, 15:35   #508
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Re: Drop the Mainsail

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Originally Posted by beiland View Post
[/U]
I happen to have read this posting of yours, and I offer a mainless rig that many have poo-pooed for its emphasis on a genoa sail. Plus I have a mizzen for balance,....ever sail a ketch under headsail and mizzen,...no mainsail?
s
Have you ever built one of your designs and have photographs and specification of it in action?
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Old 11-05-2014, 15:38   #509
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Re: Powerboats Across the Oceans

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I was NOT trying to insinuate that no powerboats are capable of crossing the oceans. In fact many have, and many of these have been done in 'controlled/monitored manners' as 'proof' that they can do it. Numbers of these crossings have been 'publicity events'.
You are kidding, right? Have you ever heard of the Dashews? Take a look at some of the blog links published here? You seem to pop on this forum every so often spouting the most outlandish and uniformed statements and ideas possible. Please tell me you are purposefully winding us up. The alternate is too sad to consider.

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Old 11-05-2014, 15:53   #510
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Re: Nordhavn at Sea

Quote:
Originally Posted by beiland View Post
How about this Nordhavn at sea?



Need for Roll Stabilization
We don't see that many photos of 'salty old vessels' in their element. Here's one experiencing problems with its power supply to its stabilizing system.

Sure makes one believe in having a back-up system that's not dependant on an active power supply.

...and this isn't even a BIG sea

Attachment 80988

Sailboats don't require roll stabilizers either, but it might be advisable for a power only vessel that wants to go out into the ocean
A decent power boat trawler will tow paravane stabalizers NOT just utilizer power stabilizers. You obviously don't know much about long distance ocean power boating.
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