Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-05-2014, 18:36   #226
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
My guess is a wheel mounted directly in front of your keyboard would suit you quite well!
__________________

__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:36   #227
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,140
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

I dont look at ANY Cat over 40 foot. I cant afford one, Its too big for me single handed and costs a bleedin' fortune to marina berth.

As stated previously, I like width and privacy.

Cats give you that. A lagoon 380 is nice!

Smaller will do me as well. There is only me... I pack light and carry less.

I love Cats.
__________________

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:36   #228
Registered User
 
Polux's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Portugal/Med
Boat: Comet 41s
Posts: 5,765
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
...
Does it matter if most of the new cats sold are viewed by mono owners (or even some other multi-owners) as 'condomarans'?
No, it does not matter but the reason most owners changed for condo cats does :This thread is about why cat sailors do not return to monos.

A sailor can chose multihulls by several reasons but the main two are space and speed; but space and speed on small to medium multihulls have contradictory demands. On a less than 45ft multihull the space needed to make an acceptable cabin on a hull implies fat hulls and the needed standing weight on the saloon a big windage that is not diminished on the condo types by curved surfaces to have more interior space and have standing height everywhere. The lateral surfaces are almost flat, producing a huge windage, to not lose any space, because space and not performance are what the sailors that chose those cats are looking for.

Yes there are a small number that will change for multihulls for having a better sailing performance but those will sacrifice some space for performance.

The increasing number of cats belongs to the first type, including a fast growing number of charter cats. I really would like that it was the other way around but it is not.

The first type of cat, the condo ones are not overall faster than a modern monohull cruising boat of the same size and slower than a performance monohull cruiser. Off course they will be faster than old heavy sailing ones, at least in most circumstances, but that is to be expected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
No more than it matters if many of the new, high-volume production monos sold could be perjoratively called 'monomarans' - you know, monohulls that are trying to emulate some of the popular features of catamarans, at the expense of compromising some aspects of monohll seaworthiness, such as:
- higher freeboard (and compromised ability to tack, anchor, or reduce speed downwind under bare poles in heavy conditions);
- greater beam and relatively flat underbodies aft (that increase inverse stability and the tendancy to pound to windward);
- larger, less well protected cockpits (increasing the risk of injury in heavy conditions, especially when heeling);
- higher, brighter deck salons (which further increase windage and the center of gravity of the boat, to say nothing of having larger portlights that are at risk of imploding in a knock-down - something which is much more likely in a mono than a multi);
I have to say that the above does not make much sense. First of all they are not emulating cats but taking their hull characteristics from solo racers and they are doing so because contrary to what you say that type of hull provide very powerful and fast boats, seaworthy boats with a bigger stability than older ones. Yes they use more form stability than older designs (that's what makes them more powerful) the shape of the hull also provides more interior space (and that come as a bonus) but they remain with a good AVS and a good reserve stability. Contrary to what you say, they are faster, sail better and are more seaworthy than previous boats.

Yes they have more freeboard but lower cabins and anyway their windage is nothing compared with the one of a condo cat, hull and cabin all together as a flat wall.
Regarding the larger hull port lights their risk of implosion is much smaller than those vertical huge "glass panels" on a condo cat. You should know that those port lights were used before for many years on fast motorboats (that have more stressed hulls) and they showed no weakness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
.
..
The number of monohull owners who have switched to multihulls is huge (and no doubt includes the majority of multihull owners on this site). The number that have gone in the opposite direction - from a multihull to a monohull is....judging from this thread, pretty small. I suppose this could mean that those who made (and are sticking with) the move from mono to multi are lacking in knowledge and the capability of undertaking a performance/accomdation analysis that is possessed by, or that can be performed by all monohull owners. Well, all except those who owned monos and then inexplicably moved on to a multi.
.....
Ultimately, however, a simple question was asked in this thread. From some of the defensive posts here by monohullers, am I to take it that you are at least conceding that few who buy multihulls move back to monos? And that while individual preferences/needs may vary, there must be valid reasons beyond the incompetence/lack of experience/lack of analytical capabilites of their owners?
It seems to me that the reason that leads to the ones that changed to multihulls not coming back to monohulls, at least in a significant way, depends on why they moved to multihulls in first place.

The few that changed for multihulls to have faster sailing boats (and own performance cats and trimarans) don't want to get back to slower boats and some (trimarans) would not even mind to live in a smaller space for the speed privilege.

The ones that changed to catamarans to have more space (and have condo cats) will never return to a boat with a considerable small area and without a great looking view from the saloon, even if for that they have to sail a slower and less enjoyable boat (while sailing). It was space that brought them to cats, not performance or sailing fun so that is just secondary.

While for different reasons, according with the ones that have condo cats and performance multihulls, there is no reason to change to monos again, except if some high latitude sailing is on the program and a safer boat (for the same size) is a more prudent choice (as someone that own a multihull has stated before).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
.
The point is that all boat designs are a compromise. What is important to one person may be unimportant to another: priorities vary.
I could not agree more
Polux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:36   #229
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

I was that kid that had to hit the hornet nest with a stick because I didn't believe my dad when he told me to leave it alone...ha ha ha. The best learnt lessons are the hard learned ones....like entering the Cat vs Mono debate...I've just lost water maker sales to the Die Hard Mono guys...but the truth is....those are usually the same folks that brag about only needing 0.654Gals of water per day and how salt water showers are great....
__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:37   #230
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

@ smj

Ching ching - whats that sound? smj wasting money on a hole in the water.

Ching ching - whats that sound? SM making monkey money!

Put the wheel inside where it belongs, in the wheel house and we'll call that an improvement.

Everyone here posting comments is an arm chair sailor. If you aren't sailing, you're in an arm chair posturing your next posts.
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:39   #231
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,140
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
It might be my own misconception, but doesn't it seem that the majority of the "hard core" monohull evangelists have never actually owned a catamaran?
It is a well known idiom that when a person proffers an opinion regarding Catamarans, that the Facts must never stand in the way of their Prejudices.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:40   #232
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,140
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
@ smj

Ching ching - whats that sound? smj wasting money on a hole in the water.

Ching ching - whats that sound? SM making monkey money!

Put the wheel inside where it belongs, in the wheel house and we'll call that an improvement.

Everyone here posting comments is an arm chair sailor. If you aren't sailing, you're in an arm chair posturing your next posts.
Sailing and texting might be illegal.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:44   #233
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
@ smj

Ching ching - whats that sound? smj wasting money on a hole in the water.

Ching ching - whats that sound? SM making monkey money!

Put the wheel inside where it belongs, in the wheel house and we'll call that an improvement.

Everyone here posting comments is an arm chair sailor. If you aren't sailing, you're in an arm chair posturing your next posts.
With over 4000 posts in 4 years I think you've been quite the busy monkey, but maybe not sailing. Do you still use band aids on your keyboard fingers or have the calluses kicked in!
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:47   #234
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
The dirty little secret most of us mono owners never want to admit in public is that the vast majority of cruisers (like 90%) would be cruising on Cats if they were the same price as monos!
The price keeps monos being build, bought and cruised! We have a 50ft floating condo of a mono (A Hudson Force 50) but it still doesn't have the space or living aboard comforts of a Lagoon 380. Bring down the price of a Cat to the same price of monos and besides the die hards (which will no doubt flip out at my comment here) itís game over for monohulls.

There....someone had to say it......
I have a cat and a long history of sailing monohulls. Got the cat because it seemed the best choice for what I thought my sailing needs were, warm weather cruising in the Florida Keys and the Bahamas and maybe a little more South.

But I would definitely get an under canvassed steel hull monohull if I was going to round the great capes. Same for most, probably all, high latitude sailing. I have seen folks claim for some cruising in canals, especially in Europe, the smaller beam of a monohull can have advantages over a multihull, and with the calm water in canals heeling is not such an issue.

There is no perfect boat, just boats that are better for some things than others. For me a cat is the best boat to do the things I want to do.
__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:48   #235
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,140
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
I was that kid that had to hit the hornet nest with a stick because I didn't believe my dad when he told me to leave it alone...ha ha ha. The best learnt lessons are the hard learned ones....like entering the Cat vs Mono debate...I've just lost water maker sales to the Die Hard Mono guys...but the truth is....those are usually the same folks that brag about only needing 0.654Gals of water per day and how salt water showers are great....
I lost my fresh water pump one time, and had salt showers for 3 days and threw a bucket of fresh water over when finished.. florida. (no watermaker).

Lets just say one bucket of fresh water does not even begin to wash off the salt.

It took several hours of scrubbing the seats and everything I touched when back in dock to clean off the stickiness of the salt.

Im not a die hard either or guy. I love monos for Coastal and really huge monos for long distance. I just dont want to own one for living on again.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:49   #236
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Sailing and texting might be illegal.
Hmmm weavis is right.

I need to re-evaluate the theoretical premise of my dissertation subject before peer review.
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:50   #237
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,140
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
. For me a cat is the best boat to do the things I want to do.
Therin lies the answer.
The best "boat" for you and your circumstances.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:51   #238
cruiser

Join Date: May 2010
Location: SF Bay Area; Former Annapolis and MA Liveaboard.
Boat: Looking and saving for my next...mid-atlantic coast
Posts: 6,197
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
With over 4000 posts in 4 years I think you've been quite the busy monkey...
Whomever has the most posts before they are swept away by the three sister waves, wins.
__________________
SaltyMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:53   #239
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post

Whomever has the most posts before they are swept away by the three sister waves, wins.
Hate to say it but I think Boatman has you beat!
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2014, 18:54   #240
Marine Service Provider
 
SV THIRD DAY's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: La Paz, Mexico
Boat: 1978 Hudson Force 50 Ketch
Posts: 3,653
Re: Do Multihullers Ever go Back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
But I would definitely get an under canvassed steel hull monohull if I was going to round the great capes..
Can I get a count of the number of cruisers listing "Rounding the Capes" as being part of their cruising dreams? Reality and the numbers isn't the circumnaviagors these days folks...it's the milk run. Easy living grandparent cruisers. "grandparent cruisers"...opps...did I just say that.....but you know what I'm talking about, even if I don't.
__________________

__________________
Rich Boren Goodbye Morro Bay...Hello La Paz, Mexico and the owner of:
Cruise RO Water High Output Water
Technautic CoolBlue Refrigeration
SV THIRD DAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hull, multihull

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I have heard of people going back and forth from USA to MX and back and no a Passport shorebird2 The Sailor's Confessional 33 02-06-2014 05:29
Multihullers, Tell Us What You Like About Monohulls Southern Star Monohull Sailboats 92 19-12-2011 13:58
ANybody ever send an inverter/charger back for rebuild repair? Chief Engineer Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 17 22-02-2008 15:57
Bahamas Is Still There and Nicer than Ever CSY Man General Sailing Forum 20 22-07-2004 09:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.