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Old 12-12-2011, 05:54   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elliebell
Plan to use it as a sailing/liveaboard starting in the carib for the first couple of years or so, then through the canal or around the horn, then to the South Spacific 2 people with dive gear and maybe a surfboard or 2 strapped to the deck.... And I shoulda mentioned before, a length of 28-34 is what we require
You had me until you said cape horn...

I have never rounded cape horn. But I have read a lot of First hand accounts. They range from yawn to almost certain death...

And if you are talking a 28-34 foot hunter I would consider carefully a transpacific crossing in one.

Nothing sgainst the boat pere se or anyone who wants to do this. It's just not for me.
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:55   #77
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
In England the Hunter twin keel is relatively popular, I mean not comparable in sales with any of the big companies (Bavaria, Benetau, Jeanneau, Dufour, Hanse) but they sell more there than probably in all other European countries put together.
Not sure if you are confusing Hunter (US) with British Hunter (UK) - which had to change it's name a few years back.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:01   #78
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
"Arm chair opinions about boats that a person has never been on is worth less than what you paid for it."

So true Don, boats always seem to attract so much so called "expert opinion".
Although I never make claim to be an expert on anything, when it comes to boats I do know my ar#e from my elbow - YMMV

The answer to OP's troll (from the armchair) is.........

No

At least not straight out of the box - no production boat is (including those trading on the BlueWater possibilities).

Can't say I would round Cape Horn in winter on a Hunter - but I can confidently also say that about any other mono .........for that trip I am building a Trimaran (see sig link) as apparently once you have a Multihull the laws of physics no longer apply
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:20   #79
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Don't ever think that you found something no one has ever heard of and throw petrol on an old topic including the Bavaria rudder. Google it if you are planning to buy one. If it all hasnt already been said then post a question but its unfair to throw an image out there with an implication that all boats of that type are unsuitable for some purpose.
Calm down - I think you missed my point, which was that anything can happen to any boat. I wasn't bashing any particular boat or implicating unsuitability. The post I was replying to spoke highly of Bavaria and I showed that things can happen to them also. If he had spoken of Hinckley, I have pics of quality problems there too!

BTW, failure of the Bavaria KEEL is the old topic, not the rudder. To my knowledge, this is the only rudder failure and it is only known of by a few people (it was my friend's boat).

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Old 12-12-2011, 07:28   #80
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
That hull does not seem to me a new Bavaria hull and I am pretty sure it isn't but any boat, specially one that is mass produced has a small risk that something went wrong during its production.
It's not a new one now, but was when it happened (2008). The rudder was built in halves and glassed onto the shaft and frame. The seam taping was faulty and the glass peeled off the rudder. My point of the post was that things can happen to ANY boat. I posted a pic of a Bavaria problem because you had mentioned them as a better build.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I would not carry a gun in a boat unless I would go for the Northwest passage (just for scaring bears) and a floating anchor (also know as drogue or sea anchor) is a basic safety device that permits you to have the boat pointed to the waves in bad weather without carrying any sail, or that permits you to slow down the boat when running downwind in bad weather and big waves.
Just to be clear, the gun comment I made was a joke to imply that these threads are always controversial ones without end. And thanks for clearing up what a floating anchor is. Around here, we call them drogues and sea anchors!

Now if only Hunter made catamarans with deck gun mounts and custom chocks for new generation anchors, I would be forking over money so fast...

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Old 12-12-2011, 07:29   #81
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Elliebelle, the original Hunters, designed by a well respected fellow named John Cherubini, looked nothing like the modern ones do. If you know what an Ericson, or an Islander or Ranger or Cal looked like, they are similar. They did not have the room of the modern ones, either, but the layouts were good. My 33 had an aft head, facing fore and aft, long before most other designs, so you could actually use it underway. The 37 was one of the earliest boats of that length with an aft cabin. The list goes on. The largest boat in that generation of Hunters was the Hunter 37, which was substantially more heavily built than the smaller ones. My 33 weighed in at 10,400 lbs (which, by the way, is a good bit more than many modern equivalents) and the 37 weighed in at around 17,000lbs, a real heavyweight by modern standards. It looked very good, had a cutter rig, running backstays and many other "blue water" features. It sailed well. Many did significant trips. There were a few "known" faults, particularly regarding the holding tank. Check out the Hunter owners website for lots of stuff on this generation of Hunters.

Hunter actually kept making this particular model well into the period where they had a newer design, as it was quite well respected and desired. I think they stopped production on this one in 1985, in favor of the Hunter Legend 35.5 and 37.5, which also did quite well. If you can find a good Cherubini 37, it might make you very happy. There were some changes in the design from its earliest days to its latest, mostly involving the main hatch coaming and the ports. I would probably give the nod, very slightly, to the later ones. There are a lot of them around, still, and somewhere you will find folks willing to tell you about them. Maybe not on this thread!

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Old 12-12-2011, 07:36   #82
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

What the hell's a floating anchor?

I can see how a floating anchor would make life easier in certain circumstances, but holy crap, doesn't setting it become really hard?

What were we talking about? Oh ya Hunters...... Nope, you'll die horribly. That's what I hear anyway.......

Where's Hogan when you need him?
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:41   #83
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

"Now if only Hunter made catamarans with deck gun mounts and custom chocks for new generation anchors, I would be forking over money so fast..."

NOW we're talking. Something BIG, with BIG motors.
I would be so all over a Hunter like that.

I would want electrified safety lines too.
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:47   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj

Calm down - I think you missed my point, which was that anything can happen to any boat. I wasn't bashing any particular boat or implicating unsuitability. The post I was replying to spoke highly of Bavaria and I showed that things can happen to them also. If he had spoken of Hinckley, I have pics of quality problems there too!

BTW, failure of the Bavaria KEEL is the old topic, not the rudder. To my knowledge, this is the only rudder failure and it is only known of by a few people (it was my friend's boat).

Mark
Sorry if I sounded less than clam. My sentence was worded poorly and not meant to an aimed response, i.e. aimed at you.

Perhaps my comment should have been, "if one is going to post a picture of a failed boat one should add context and links...". I hope you see your post had little context. As a result I made an incorrect assumption to the keel problem...

My mistake...

But we do now know that this was a one of a kind failure possibly and not an indictment of Bavaria rudders...
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Old 12-12-2011, 07:50   #85
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Great bluewater boats typically make lousy live aboards and visa versa. All that wonderful leg and head room in the ideal live aboard boat becomes more room to get tossed about while at sea. Likewise, the tight spaces and narrow bunks which make a good bluewater boat more comfortable at sea also makes them less than ideal if all you're doing is staying tied to the pier. I delivered yachts up and down the West coast, including just about every manufacturer you can think of. The Hunters I drove (mostly later vintage) were designed to attract the newer weekend cruiser / live aboarder. Wonderful bathrooms with showers with glass doors, center pedestal queen sized beds, etc. Looks great at the slip but at sea at best they're worthless and at worst they are dangerous. And that's just the interiors, I won't even go into the rigging. Can you do an ocean crossing in a well fit out Hunter? Sure, and it's been done. Most boats are better prepared for ocean sailing than their owners. Are they designed with ocean crossing in mind? No. In my experience 99.9% of those people who talk about doing an ocean crossing never venture more than 10 miles from the slip. Lots of bluewater capable boats sitting at the dock with years of barnacles under them. Take a long, honest look at your plans and then decide what it is you really need, a blue water boat or a live aboard. Not many out there that do both well and not many people who buy a boat intending to sail the world actually do.
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:22   #86
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Well that's not true, Hunter has been doing this for more than a decade.

..

PS - it is not a given that lighter is weaker just as heavier isn't stronger. Otherwise we would still be driving cars built like a 1950 Buick.
Sorry about my ignorance about the kevlar protection I am not very familiar with Hunter.

I could not agree more with you about weight and I prefer light and strong boats but that implies the use of more modern techniques like vacuum infusion and high tech materials like epoxy or carbon or the use of interior frames in carbon or stainless steel (all expensive unfortunately).

Regarding the old Bavaria 36 and the new 36 (that weights a ton more) the materials and the building techniques are the same, so we are talking about a stronger boat. Well, it could only be less well designed but as the last one designed by Bruce Farr it is very unlikely LOL.

See what say this journalist regarding that, on a Yachting World boat test:

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Old 12-12-2011, 08:25   #87
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Begs the question - is a sailboat more than just something to sail?

I know I considered this quite a lot in my choice.
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:28   #88
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Anchored in Barra de Navidad last year,when the wind came up the Hunter Passage 42? next to me would swing around and sheer back and forth like a wild bull.The guy kept dragging anchor as well.Huge windage on that boat.
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:44   #89
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Great bluewater boats typically make lousy live aboards and visa versa. All that wonderful leg and head room in the ideal live aboard boat becomes more room to get tossed about while at sea. Likewise, the tight spaces and narrow bunks which make a good bluewater boat more comfortable at sea also makes them less than ideal if all you're doing is staying tied to the pier. I delivered yachts up and down the West coast, including just about every manufacturer you can think of. The Hunters I drove (mostly later vintage) were designed to attract the newer weekend cruiser / live aboarder. Wonderful bathrooms with showers with glass doors, center pedestal queen sized beds, etc. Looks great at the slip but at sea at best they're worthless and at worst they are dangerous. And that's just the interiors, I won't even go into the rigging. Can you do an ocean crossing in a well fit out Hunter? Sure, and it's been done. Most boats are better prepared for ocean sailing than their owners. Are they designed with ocean crossing in mind? No. In my experience 99.9% of those people who talk about doing an ocean crossing never venture more than 10 miles from the slip. Lots of bluewater capable boats sitting at the dock with years of barnacles under them. Take a long, honest look at your plans and then decide what it is you really need, a blue water boat or a live aboard. Not many out there that do both well and not many people who buy a boat intending to sail the world actually do.


Well, that's sums it all. Most people, even the ones that cross oceans, live aboard and most of the time they are coastal cruising on cruising grounds enjoying good life, and as the "Prof" has said, boats designed primarily for bluewater sailing are lousy as a comfortable place to enjoy living on the sunset.

You can find on the market all kinds of compromises. You have just to know what really are you gone to do and to know something about boats to chose the right compromise for you and your personal tastes.

As the Prof has pointed out, a bluewater optimized boat is the wrong compromise for 99.5% of the cruisers, except to the ones that boasting about the boat they have is more important than the use they give to it .
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:46   #90
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

@highseas - I would argue if the guy was dragging anchor he either didn't have the right ground tackle for the conditions or hadn't set it properly (or both). Too many people are quick to blame the boat for issues caused by poor seamanship.
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