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Old 17-12-2011, 17:57   #196
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
You think Hunters are easier to sail than other boats?
A newer Hunter, yes.
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Old 17-12-2011, 18:02   #197
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
No way, on Lake Ontario they're all CS's and C&C's, although I must admit all the newer boats are Beneteaus.
While the numbers may be wrong, I think my percentage of boats that stay at the dock vs the ones that sail isn't that far off. Granted, any newer boat is more likely to be used I would think.
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Old 17-12-2011, 18:44   #198
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Thanks, but it seems many don't believe anything owners might say.
obviously...but I do listen... owners are an invaluable source that should never be ignored. Most are passionate about the boats they sail and the vast majority will tell you the good, bad, and truly ugly of the brand they love.
Another will tell you that the truly ugly is truly ugly....but hey, I found a way to fix that to just fugly...

When I asked about the Cheribini 33 ... or is that 34, I had numerous owners tell me, "she sails like a scalded dog" and handles well... great boat to live on.. and then the pans started and the owners argued. It was an invaluable learning experience. I also got Hunter history...

BTW..for the orignial poster. I just remembered that the guys at the Hunter factory are a great source of info and are awesome to deal with.
anne

PS...Don, that is their loss and stupidity ya know... fair winds
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Old 17-12-2011, 18:55   #199
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The problem with having the last word is that when a post contains assumptions on what I said it seems fair to let me try and set my record straight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames

My boat doesn't have gudgeon and pintle. As I said, the only way to spot this particular rust problem would have been to shove a damp rag six feet down the rudder post to the one place where the rust was. It was visible on the inside of the tube after it broke, but not the outside.
I didn't say your boat had gudgeons and pintles. My point was any boat needs maintenance

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames
Second, the thread's topic is whether Hunters make good bluewater/live aboard boats.
That point is not lost on me. Clarifying whether there is a rudder problem on "Hunters" is pertinent to that topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames

Who is the PO? I didn't give anyone an ass whipping, but you're trying to pull one on me. (You missed.)

What is the PO? And I never said anyone was responsible for my rudder except me. First of all, upon examination, the rudder was compromised. Second of all, it was up to me to refuse the tow if I didn't like how the towboat was doing it. As I said a long time ago on this topic, if I'd had *one more day's experience* I would have gotten out of the boat, waded in the direction he wanted to tow me, and we would have BOTH seen the depth of the water shrink.
Sorry for the confusion. PO is shorthand for previous owner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames
NEVER have I said that anyone else should pay for the rudder.

Yes. I got it on the sandbar. I called for a tow BECAUSE I wasn't confident the rudder could take a battering, I was close to a channel and could have been heavily waked, and the tide was going out, making it even more vulnerable. No doubt you have forgotten some of those details, but for some reason (grin) they've stuck in my mind.
Sorry for your grounding. I did not mean to imply that you did anything wrong. I wasn't there.

My only point in commenting on that was that with a rusted rudder and a grounding, rudder failure is explainable and in no way should impugne Hunter rudders in design, materials or quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames
When I asked you to not put words in my mouth I said that because you said I was suggesting that there was something wrong with Foss Foam's products. I've been to their manufacturing site. I've met Mr. Foss. I was very impressed. But you suggested that I was maligning it.
I don't think I madee any such comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames
This will be my last comment on this, because you have garbled much of what I have said in several posts. I didn't come here to argue with you or anyone else. If you enjoy "most of my posts," I suggest you let the rest slide. No one is perfect and I may say something in the future that you think is not worded satisfactorily also.
I don't think you can make a statement like, "I wonder about the quality of that stainless." in the context of this discussion and not have the statement challenged.

And I don't mean to garble your words or be argumentative. I just wonder if you really think the quality of the stainless in your 30 year old boat was a factor in the rudder failure.

Certianly rust, albeit hard to inspect, and the grounding and subsequent towing were factors.
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Old 17-12-2011, 18:55   #200
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisgo View Post
Raku,

When you ran aground, was the rudder in the sand at that point? When I ran mine aground, I was heavily heeled at 7 knots, so the rudder got burried as well. No damage when they pulled us off though. And we were STUCK. First try was with 150hp outboard that passed by. Not a budge. Required a Marine Police with a twin engine, pic attached. Took many attempts by them as well, under full power.

No, the rudder was not in the sand. I had realized that I was probably off course, and had slowed down and was about to turn when I ran aground. It was a dumb navigational mistake on my part, and here in west central Florida especially so. :/

However, the tide was going out, and with a skeg rudder, it was vulnerable to a big wake, and as someone pointed out, that rudder was 28 - 29 years old.

This isn't to knock Hunters, or Foss Foam, who makes those rudders. But in retrospect I'm glad it happened, because on examination the rudder clearly was compromised, and it could have broken under far worse circumstances, such as in a storm near the shore.
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Old 17-12-2011, 19:01   #201
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

May I ask how you ran aground in Toronto? I sail out of NYC, and if there's some new underwater feature I don't know about, it might be handy to know.

I'm aware of the sand piling up at the end of the airport runway, and I know about the bar at QCYC (touched this once to the amusement of the beer drinkers, but as I was in my steel cutter, I just powered off without much drama).

The only other places I can think of are the anchor giving out in front of Hanlan's. One of our boats did not plan so well and anchored in 25 knots in front of there and had to get hauled off. Lost his rudder, I believe, and probably one pair of clean trousers.
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Old 17-12-2011, 19:04   #202
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisgo View Post
A newer Hunter, yes.
Especially if you get some of the whistles and bells like in-mast furling for the mainsail. I have a friend who has electric everything on his boat. He's older and his wife isn't up to crewing for him. It allows them to enjoy sailing. Good for them!
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Old 17-12-2011, 19:06   #203
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bella View Post
obviously...but I do listen... owners are an invaluable source that should never be ignored. Most are passionate about the boats they sail and the vast majority will tell you the good, bad, and truly ugly of the brand they love.
Another will tell you that the truly ugly is truly ugly....but hey, I found a way to fix that to just fugly...

When I asked about the Cheribini 33 ... or is that 34, I had numerous owners tell me, "she sails like a scalded dog" and handles well... great boat to live on.. and then the pans started and the owners argued. It was an invaluable learning experience. I also got Hunter history...

BTW..for the orignial poster. I just remembered that the guys at the Hunter factory are a great source of info and are awesome to deal with.
anne

PS...Don, that is their loss and stupidity ya know... fair winds

Ohhhh I looked at a 33' Cherubini. It had problems, including dry rot in bad places and engine oil the consistency of peanut butter -- but OH MY that head! What a nice head!

It took all the maturity and self-control I could muster to walk away from that boat!
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Old 17-12-2011, 19:10   #204
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

"And I don't mean to garble your words or be argumentative. I just wonder if you really think the quality of the stainless in your 30 year old boat was a factor in the rudder failure."

Since it rusted, yes, I wonder about it. It failed at the point where the support post was badly rusted, although that rust was not visible from the outside.

And yes, the PO did fail to take adequate care of the boat.
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Old 17-12-2011, 19:20   #205
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Stainless steel doesn't rust. Stainless steel, when it corrodes, shows black pitting. Also, I think more than 50% of the rudders on cruising boats will show a steady stream of water when you drill a small hole in the bottom part of them... and owners don't care and ignore it.

cheers,
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Old 17-12-2011, 19:30   #206
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Stainless steel doesn't rust. Stainless steel, when it corrodes, shows black pitting. Also, I think more than 50% of the rudders on cruising boats will show a steady stream of water when you drill a small hole in the bottom part of them... and owners don't care and ignore it.

cheers,
Nick.

I don't think it's fair to say owners "don't care." This is the first I've heard of it. Where would the water be coming in from? Mine is molded foam covered by fiberglass. There is a seam. Would that be the likely source of a leak?

The rust was on the *inside* of the post, not the outside, and since the top of the post is well inside the boat, I couldn't figure it out.

But the thread is about whether Hunters make good bluewater boats, and good live-aboard boats. I don't want to distract from the OP's question.


I thought stainless didn't rust either, but clearly the support post on the old rudder was rusted. That's why I questioned the quality of the stainless.
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Old 17-12-2011, 19:49   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I don't think it's fair to say owners "don't care." This is the first I've heard of it. Where would the water be coming in from? Mine is molded foam covered by fiberglass. There is a seam. Would that be the likely source of a leak?

The rust was on the *inside* of the post, not the outside, and since the top of the post is well inside the boat, I couldn't figure it out.

But the thread is about whether Hunters make good bluewater boats, and good live-aboard boats. I don't want to distract from the OP's question.

I thought stainless didn't rust either, but clearly the support post on the old rudder was rusted. That's why I questioned the quality of the stainless.
So, next haul out, drill the hole. It's 5 minutes to close it again when it's dry. But I bet you won't do it.... because this isn't the first time this comes up and like I said, owners ignore it (the old and flawed "if it ain't broke..." mentality)

I can say something about Hunters too. I actually looked at a new Hunter 47 about 10 years ago. We also have many friends with Hunters, some sailed them hard and far. Like everybody, I like the interior and like many, I do not fancy the exterior. But that is estatics. I have seen a wooden dock take chunks out of the stern of a Hunter where other boats took chunks from the dock instead. The high freeboard is actually safer in bad weather (read big waves). The 47' that I looked at had a big aft cabin, which resulted in a very unsafe cockpit (raised floor and seating). In short, good for liveaboards but I wouldn't make a habit of crossing oceans with them. I rather have a Bene 50 or a First 47.

Also... I read things like (just an example) "Pacific Seacraft is better than Hunter". Statements like that are flawed, because a 46' Hunter will do better than a 26' Pacific Seacraft in otherwise equal conditions. Length and age are often more important than brand/type.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 17-12-2011, 19:58   #208
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
So, next haul out, drill the hole. It's 5 minutes to close it again when it's dry. But I bet you won't do it.... because this isn't the first time this comes up and like I said, owners ignore it (the old and flawed "if it ain't broke..." mentality)

I can say something about Hunters too. I actually looked at a new Hunter 47 about 10 years ago. We also have many friends with Hunters, some sailed them hard and far. Like everybody, I like the interior and like many, I do not fancy the exterior. But that is estatics. I have seen a wooden dock take chunks out of the stern of a Hunter where other boats took chunks from the dock instead. The high freeboard is actually safer in bad weather (read big waves). The 47' that I looked at had a big aft cabin, which resulted in a very unsafe cockpit (raised floor and seating). In short, good for liveaboards but I wouldn't make a habit of crossing oceans with them. I rather have a Bene 50 or a First 47.

Also... I read things like (just an example) "Pacific Seacraft is better than Hunter". Statements like that are flawed, because a 46' Hunter will do better than a 26' Pacific Seacraft in otherwise equal conditions. Length and age are often more important than brand/type.

cheers,
Nick.
I'm sorry, but why -- exactly -- do you think I won't check my rudder at the next haul out?
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Old 17-12-2011, 20:20   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I'm sorry, but why -- exactly -- do you think I won't check my rudder at the next haul out?
Past experience... I have seen myself and one other boat (which was steel but sure enough was filled with water) do it, while a hundred or so declared me insane to drill a hole in the rudder. So I'll take the bet based on those odds

Oh.. The water comes in where the shaft meets the rudder. Fully metal and fully fiberglass constructions can be watertight, but metal shaft with fiberglass rudder... I think my 50% number will be low.

My rudder had grounding damage when I bought the boat. Dried it out using shop vac and heat for days. Drilled the hole 2 years later and dry as a bone. But my ruddershaft is fiberglass.

cheers,
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Old 17-12-2011, 20:44   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion
No amount of info can change some people's perception.
You can bring your polar sheets to our annapolis weds night race series and sail angles all you want when the rhumb line is DDW in our non-spin fleet. Every season there is a newbie who tries to sail angles downwind while racing non-spin because he thinks that he knows something the other 20-30 boats don't who sail wing on wing DDW (meaning within 5 degrees of DDW in reality of course since you must have the wind every so sligtly from the genoa side). Never wins. You can't head deep enough without a poled out downwind sail (ie spinnaker) to escape the shadow of the main to make better VMG. A simple fact which becomes apparent if you actually do this in a competitive PHRF keelboat non-spin fleet.

So how does this fit into the thread? Well, means that conventional non-raked spreaders have their place in racing and cruising because they allow you to ease the main further for downwind sailing.
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