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Old 15-12-2011, 06:42   #136
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
I like the roll bar on the new Hunter 50 I just got off of but was sad to see NO toe rail, at least not one you could tie anything to just a small one molded into the deck. Take a look..

Attachment 34793
Ohhh I would not like that -- I am one with my toe rail!
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Old 15-12-2011, 08:54   #137
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
Actually, that was one of Donald Crowhurst's ideas and is covered in the book "The Last Strange Voyage of Donald Crowhurst".

Donald Crowhurst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Some other idiots fill the interior of the mast with foam, to give buoyancy in the case of being rolled...as if the mast was not the first thing to broke when a boat is violently capsized

Manuel
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Old 15-12-2011, 09:08   #138
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
One of my best friend intensely dislikes my boat because it has swept-back spreaders....

And, he has a point. If your goal is to get the highest performance possible out of your sails, it may not be the boat for you. If you've spent 60 years learning to sail on every point, as he has, it could be a deal breaker.

Actually, that sounds like he didn't learn much (or anything) in 60 years which is the real tragedy. Sailing DDW (dead down wind) is not fast, safe or effective. That is the only point of sail which swept back spreaders preclude. No capable racing skipper would intentionally choose to sail DDW REGARDLESS of the spreader configuration.

You might be better served by not listening to your friend but being more observant of modern design of race boats, most of which have swept back spreaders because of a number of reasons, all of which are advantageous compared with the traditional design with which most people are familiar.

The criticism you hear is more form ignorance than anything else.
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Old 15-12-2011, 09:14   #139
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

I'll just throw something out here Cored hulls anyone?

(by no means just Hunters, or even all of them)
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Old 15-12-2011, 09:45   #140
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Originally Posted by engele View Post
I'll just throw something out here Cored hulls anyone?

(by no means just Hunters, or even all of them)
I guess it depends on how the coring is done. Hunter hulls are solid fiberglass (with Kevlar reinforcement) below the waterline. A core is used above the waterline in order to strengthen the hull while keeping it light.

Keeping a hull light means more weight can be put into ballast, which ultimately makes for a less tender boat. You wouldn't want to build an icebreaker this way, but it makes sense for a sailboat.
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Old 15-12-2011, 10:23   #141
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Some of the most expensive boats have cored hulls; some of the most traditional cruising bots also have cored hulls. It is an old, urban myth that proper coring, especially those above the WL, are any worse than solid hulls, very few of which exist in today's technology.
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Old 15-12-2011, 12:12   #142
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
Actually, that was one of Donald Crowhurst's ideas and is covered in the book "The Last Strange Voyage of Donald Crowhurst".

Donald Crowhurst - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
As i said!!!! Cheers
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Old 15-12-2011, 20:39   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Actually, that sounds like he didn't learn much (or anything) in 60 years which is the real tragedy. Sailing DDW (dead down wind) is not fast, safe or effective. That is the only point of sail which swept back spreaders preclude. No capable racing skipper would intentionally choose to sail DDW REGARDLESS of the spreader configuration.

You might be better served by not listening to your friend but being more observant of modern design of race boats, most of which have swept back spreaders because of a number of reasons, all of which are advantageous compared with the traditional design with which most people are familiar.

The criticism you hear is more form ignorance than anything else.

You must be absolutely kidding. In our annapolis and surrounding PHRF fleets ALL non-spinnaker boats sail DDW if that's the course. i guarantee there's good racing skippers there. Even the spin boats sail very deep angles. The ONLY exception to this is whan boats can plane (like sportboats) or perhaps in very light wind. When I raced Lasers, 420s, and FJs in college we all sailed DDW in windward/leeward courses, and these boats can plane. When I raced 505 dinghies we'd only heat up onto planing angles above certain wind speeds. Below that you'd go faster but get downwind slower than near DDW boats. I guarantee no hunter is faster downwind angles. Granted, while cruising most folks hate DDW, but that's not what this post said. If you have a good whisker pole DDW is fastest.

The reason for swept back spreaders and no backstay is simple- you can carry a high roach main for more area, or you can have a bendy mast you can rake to flatten the sail to go faster upwind. Ironic that the vast majority of Hunters are equipped with the in mast furling system with a nonbendy cruising mast. Nothing wrong with that, but unless you have the conventional roached main the B&R rig is a waste.

Please list the other reasons for which ALL boats are served best by having swept spreaders?
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Old 16-12-2011, 09:33   #144
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

I got it, everyone chip in and buy me a Hunter, I don't particularly care which model. And I'll do a circumnavigation in it, and let you all know how it turns out.
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Old 16-12-2011, 10:36   #145
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

From a blue water cruiser who sailed a 2001 Hunter 450 Passage. Both the 450 Passage (1999-2002) and the 456 (2003-2006) or there abouts both versions carry 100 gallon fuel takes and have Kevlar reinforced stringers in the hull. They both hold 200 gallons of water as well. The newer Hunter Passage models hold only 75 gallons of fuel and offer only as an option the larger fuel tanks. I have yet to find one outfitted with the larger tank. This tankage really helps in long passages and was well used during the Caribe 1500 rally from Hampton Va to Nanny Cay, Tortola. Also this years caribe 1500 had a Hunter Passage 420 which arrived in the middle of the fleet standings. Many boats had breakdowns, even the snob appeal boats ie Oyster, Tayana. Island Packet, but nooooooooo not the Hunter!!! I have had mine in 60 knot gale winds and she was rock solid. Yes she creaked and squeaked but so does most every boat in 25 foot seas. We sailed her with only a small piece of furled jib and the strain on the furling line was incredible. We lost part of our SSB antenna and the Magma grill cover. We saw 12 knots in a hull designed for 8 maximum. We were in a broad reach thus allowing the foresail to give us the stability that was needed. Both the rig and the hull were rock solid..........one cannot go wrong using this as both a live aboard and a bluewater sailor. Any further questions PM me.
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Old 16-12-2011, 10:44   #146
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
I like the roll bar on the new Hunter 50 I just got off of but was sad to see NO toe rail, at least not one you could tie anything to just a small one molded into the deck. Take a look..

Attachment 34793
Seems like it would be easy to bust your ass on that deck...good reason to buy a harness!..DVC
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Old 16-12-2011, 10:47   #147
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xxuxx View Post
From a blue water cruiser who sailed a 2001 Hunter 450 Passage. Both the 450 Passage (1999-2002) and the 456 (2003-2006) or there abouts both versions carry 100 gallon fuel takes and have Kevlar reinforced stringers in the hull. They both hold 200 gallons of water as well. The newer Hunter Passage models hold only 75 gallons of fuel and offer only as an option the larger fuel tanks. I have yet to find one outfitted with the larger tank. This tankage really helps in long passages and was well used during the Caribe 1500 rally from Hampton Va to Nanny Cay, Tortola. Also this years caribe 1500 had a Hunter Passage 420 which arrived in the middle of the fleet standings. Many boats had breakdowns, even the snob appeal boats ie Oyster, Tayana. Island Packet, but nooooooooo not the Hunter!!! I have had mine in 60 knot gale winds and she was rock solid. Yes she creaked and squeaked but so does most every boat in 25 foot seas. We sailed her with only a small piece of furled jib and the strain on the furling line was incredible. We lost part of our SSB antenna and the Magma grill cover. We saw 12 knots in a hull designed for 8 maximum. We were in a broad reach thus allowing the foresail to give us the stability that was needed. Both the rig and the hull were rock solid..........one cannot go wrong using this as both a live aboard and a bluewater sailor. Any further questions PM me.
This only proves you have big balls...cant belive you left the grill mounted...DVC
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Old 16-12-2011, 10:52   #148
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

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Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
This only proves you have big balls...cant belive you left the grill mounted...DVC
Everyone in the Caribe 1500 left their grill mounted..........my mistake was to leave the grill cover on!!! LOL
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Old 16-12-2011, 11:08   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxuxx
From a blue water cruiser who sailed a 2001 Hunter 450 Passage. Both the 450 Passage (1999-2002) and the 456 (2003-2006) or there abouts both versions carry 100 gallon fuel takes and have Kevlar reinforced stringers in the hull. They both hold 200 gallons of water as well. The newer Hunter Passage models hold only 75 gallons of fuel and offer only as an option the larger fuel tanks. I have yet to find one outfitted with the larger tank. This tankage really helps in long passages and was well used during the Caribe 1500 rally from Hampton Va to Nanny Cay, Tortola. Also this years caribe 1500 had a Hunter Passage 420 which arrived in the middle of the fleet standings. Many boats had breakdowns, even the snob appeal boats ie Oyster, Tayana. Island Packet, but nooooooooo not the Hunter!!! I have had mine in 60 knot gale winds and she was rock solid. Yes she creaked and squeaked but so does most every boat in 25 foot seas. We sailed her with only a small piece of furled jib and the strain on the furling line was incredible. We lost part of our SSB antenna and the Magma grill cover. We saw 12 knots in a hull designed for 8 maximum. We were in a broad reach thus allowing the foresail to give us the stability that was needed. Both the rig and the hull were rock solid..........one cannot go wrong using this as both a live aboard and a bluewater sailor. Any further questions PM me.
Alot of guts but prove enough for me
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Old 16-12-2011, 11:13   #150
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Re: Do Hunters Make Good Bluewater / Liveaboard Boats ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
Actually, that sounds like he didn't learn much (or anything) in 60 years which is the real tragedy. Sailing DDW (dead down wind) is not fast, safe or effective. That is the only point of sail which swept back spreaders preclude. No capable racing skipper would intentionally choose to sail DDW REGARDLESS of the spreader configuration.

You might be better served by not listening to your friend but being more observant of modern design of race boats, most of which have swept back spreaders because of a number of reasons, all of which are advantageous compared with the traditional design with which most people are familiar.

The criticism you hear is more form ignorance than anything else.

Excuse me, but that's a good friend of mine you're bashing there, and he had sound reasons. You know, there's a limit regarding how much you can say about well known people, but if you knew who it was, I think, perhaps, you wouldn't be quite so quick to dismiss him as ignorant.

He had a VERY valid point. The type of rig I have can't run downwind using the mainsail. Since I typically sail by myself or with one other person, and given my level of experience, a spinnaker isn't a realistic option.

Hunter, in fact, has stepped away from that type of rig. And he could probably sail circles around most people here and give the rest of them a real run for their money.
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