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hellosailor · 29-07-2012, 10:05

"I would question if any given county would be smart enough to figure out if the address you are using is a mailbox....?"

USPS database, easily rented. And, voter registration records and motor vehicle records. Utility records. Things like that.

Although, the Florida DMV says they can't ensure that all Florida car ownres have insurance, because the technology would be too complicated. Honest, they said that just last year. The technology that other states have used for decades, is too complicated to deploy in FloriDUH.

You know that sooner or later this whole thing (residency versus postal address) is going to the courts, and you know how it is going to wind up. The opinion of a private corporation (the USPS) as to whether your residency qualifies for mail delivery, doesn't affect whether you reside there, now does it?

Thinking of Soylent Green, those silly bureacrats need to be ground up and and recycled as Purina Lawyer Chow.

Cheechako · 29-07-2012, 10:28

I'm not thinking USPS. I'm thinking Mailboxes etc, etc.
Interestingly, In a small unincorporated town near where I live, they do not deliver mail, everyone in that town has to have a PO box. The town has a Post Office.

Canibul · 29-07-2012, 11:51

This entire nation does not deliver mail. IF you want mail, you rent a P.O. Box.

We just got house numbers and the roads got names last year. I named ours.

hellosailor · 29-07-2012, 13:20

"they do not deliver mail,"
Some hidebound old Colonies still follow their Pilgrim Forefathers' Ways and get ah, compulsive about formalities. But I'd bet Alaska has no problem figuring out "Ayup, I live in the cabin two miles past the bend above the fork in the river" even when the USPS can't. How you put that on a voter registration card or driver's license...damfino, but I'll bet they do it.

And as I recall, Florida was forced to accept addresses like "under the westmost bridge on the JT Causeway" because even homeless people living under bridges CAN be residents who need to receive benefits.

"Can I speak to your supervisor please?"

I can just see the infomercials now, "Have you been denied benefits because you don't have a residence with a postal address? Call 1-800---- to join this class action suit!" Lawyers, sharks, mice, everyone gotta eat too...

**minaret** · 29-07-2012, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

And as I recall, Florida was forced to accept addresses like "under the westmost bridge on the JT Causeway" because even homeless people living under bridges CAN be residents who need to receive benefits.

"Can I speak to your supervisor please?"

I can just see the infomercials now, "Have you been denied benefits because you don't have a residence with a postal address? Call 1-800---- to join this class action suit!" Lawyers, sharks, mice, everyone gotta eat too...

I asked the DMV what the homeless do when they were hassling me here in WA on this issue. They told me that it is legal to use a homeless shelter as an address as they are exempted, but you need to do it with the shelter's assistance. This was the only option presented, apparently it is now defacto disenfranchisement for the homeless unless they are willing to deal with a shelter in the state of WA. They would not accept any form of PO box or mailing service as an address, and wanted multiple proofs of residence such as a marina bill with liveaboard fee and power/phone bills etc. I had all of this and still had a very difficult time getting them to accept it as proof of residence, as did numerous other long time residents in my marina I have spoken too. I fear if I want to cruise long term I may have to acquire residency in a more lenient state (if such a thing still exists) if I want to retain voting rights and the like.

CarinaPDX · 29-07-2012, 13:59

In Oregon at least the DMV and the election folks make a distinction between the actual physical address and the mailing address. So the physical address is my slip number and marina address, and the mailing address is my private mailbox (PMB). When leaving the state to go cruising, the last physical address is retained. I had no problem with this for 17 years out cruising. Oregon also does not apply income tax to such residents as long as they do not have a home in the state and spend less than a month each year in state (Oregon-sourced income is still taxed). This works well for Oregon cruisers, although it might be difficult to justify paying Oregon income tax (~9%) while establishing residency...

Greg

hellosailor · 29-07-2012, 14:08

"if I want to retain voting rights "
minaret, may one assume that you did ask nicely?

OK, that was the carrot, now use the stick. Call the local League of Women Voters or some other voters' rights advocacy group, tell them you've been disenfranchised because the state refuses to recognize your residency. Someone is going to be in a whole world of pain once it becomes a federal voting rights issue.

"Incoming!"

Remember to wash the deck & shave before the nooze team comes for the interview.

ebaugh · 29-07-2012, 14:54

I'm not sure the voting issue is the same as maintaining a drivers license. We use St Brendan's, and had no issue registering to vote last summer in Clay county FL. But I remember the hassle renewing my DL in St Pete 6 months before that, and I still owned and resided in property there at the time. It was an inconvenience then, but now I'm in Bonaire, no owned or rented property in FL, so I don't know how I will renew when I get back to the US.

Have any liveaboards in Florida not in a marina obtained a new or renewal DL? What did it take?

**minaret** · 29-07-2012, 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"if I want to retain voting rights "
minaret, may one assume that you did ask nicely?

OK, that was the carrot, now use the stick. Call the local League of Women Voters or some other voters' rights advocacy group, tell them you've been disenfranchised because the state refuses to recognize your residency. Someone is going to be in a whole world of pain once it becomes a federal voting rights issue.

"Incoming!"

Remember to wash the deck & shave before the nooze team comes for the interview.

I probably did NOT ask nicely, I was pretty PO'd about the whole thing after almost twenty years of living aboard and using a PO box as my physical address with no problems. I have not been disenfranchised, as they very carefully took into account those who liveaboard and I had all the documents to prove it. It was just all the hoops I had to jump through and the general bad attitude that I resented, they refused to accept most of the documents I presented them with for various silly reasons, bureacracy at it's worst. I should have known it was coming as almost every vote I have made in the last ten years has been contested due to my address. I am more concerned with the effect on shoving off long term. If they will no longer accept a mail service or PO box as a physical address, and they require active billing accounts in your name at the local utilities as well to get a drivers liscence or ID, and you need an ID to vote (they are working on that one), then it will be pretty hard to vote in WA if you haven't been in state for some years. Which is of course their intention.

Canibul · 29-07-2012, 15:53

You must be talking about voting in local elections. US citizens are entitled to vote in Federal elections no matter where they live. In my case, it's the last place I was registered to vote, Sandwich Massachusetts.

hellosailor · 29-07-2012, 17:49

Canibul, but where or how do you vote "only" federal? Usually, there's only one register of voters, and that's a local registry.

ebaugh, I think FL did some radical changes in their DL process about two years ago, now they only deal in federally-sanctioned high security IDs. They got major flack over the changes, which resulted in horrendous delays at their dl offices.

minaret-
"and you need an ID to vote (they are working on that one), " I live in a state where they claim you don't need any ID to vote. Except, you have to "sign" or "make your mark" at the voting place, in the registry. Funny thing, the poll workers also have to check your mark against the one in the registry. THAT'S ID! Under state and federal laws, your "mark" can be your ID, no photo required, for life in general.

Which is a real burden for the dead. Ever see a dead man trying to hold a pen? really now, how can they vote that way?!

Vote early and vote often, that's the American Way. (sigh) Photo IDs at the polls? Doesn't seem like an unreasonable way to end a batch of voter fraud, but both parties WANT fraud to be possible. Same way they both acknoledged the "dimpled chad" problem and agreed to let it stand, more than a year before a certain famous election.

**minaret** · 29-07-2012, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canibul

You must be talking about voting in local elections. US citizens are entitled to vote in Federal elections no matter where they live. In my case, it's the last place I was registered to vote, Sandwich Massachusetts.

Yes, although I have had Fed votes contested due to my address as well. Perhaps that will no longer happen now that they have us "in the system" though. But more important to me is the driver's liscense.

jostalli · 29-07-2012, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canibul

We are US citizens. We pay a whole bunch of Federal Income Taxes, quarterly. We don't receive much in the way of benefits for those taxes, so I would think that accountants for Uncle Sam would like us, too. Heavily in the black ink column.

So why don't you take advantage of the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion? Seems like you are missing out on huge tax savings.

osirissail · 29-07-2012, 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Canibul, but where or how do you vote "only" federal? Usually, there's only one register of voters, and that's a local registry. . . .

For active cruisers who are outside the borders of the USA, you can vote by visiting any U. S. Embassy and show your passport. You will be given a ballot that only has the Federal Level elections on it. I did this in Trinidad in 2004.

However, now you can get your voting ballots "on-line" from some States like Florida. Then you mail them in or you can "fax" them to the State Elections Office. Here in Florida I maintained my physical address with a relative and subsequently have never had to "re-register" to vote when I left for extended cruising in the Caribbean. The whole process was quite simple or at least, it was back in 2008.

But that was in the past (or recent past) and how the new surge of "positive photo ID" regulations will affect past practice is currently playing out.

Which is interesting because "past practice" a hundred or more years ago was that only "male land-holders" could vote. Maybe we are going back to the "good old days?"