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Old 21-12-2008, 10:10   #106
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Each year municipalities are allowed to dump raw sewage into the environment. This occurs in overload conditions. Seattle typically does about 7million gallons a year if I remember right. There are many cities that do this. I makes it real hard to care about the few gallons my boat would put in the water every year.....
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Old 21-12-2008, 10:48   #107
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Merry Christmas

You guys cut the crap.

Im going to the boat and if Im lucky, I wont be back for a couple of days. I bet I have a big load of duck dumplings to wash off the boat. Damn feather balls.
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Old 21-12-2008, 10:50   #108
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this thread must be getting near the end because the responses are getting repetitious just worded slightly differently.
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Old 21-12-2008, 10:55   #109
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this thread must be getting near the end because the responses are getting repetitious just worded differently, slightly.
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Old 21-12-2008, 10:56   #110
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For Aquaholic,
Noun

S: (n) metaphor (a figure of speech in which an expression is used to refer to something that it does not literally denote in order to suggest a similarity)
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Old 22-12-2008, 08:39   #111
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Originally Posted by Chuck Baier View Post
this thread must be getting near the end because the responses are getting repetitious just worded slightly differently.
geez i hate black keyboards
Chuck old mate you've already said that.

this thread will never die, every time anyone that gives a crap does a google they will find this thread.

(hello world) now any time that any newbie programmer does a google they will find this forum. it was the only way i found it, ergo etc etc

if you are going to crap in the ocean macerate it, now that some super intelligent non crapper from the year 2525 has found this thread in a google cache..... have the seas survived?

but whilst zager & evans were doing their stuff there's a couple of tom petty videos i;d like to find again..... dont ya just love a beer after a long day at work...
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Old 25-12-2008, 19:09   #112
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Ex-Calif, Could be part of the reason why the harbors in your part of the world are some of the most polluted on the planet. <snip>

How about if I come over and drop my sewage on your lawn. I mean, the dogs, cats and birds do so what would be the harm.
Asia has atrocious environmental track records for sure. Hong Kong harbor, Singapore Harbor etc. All bad. I remember a quote from Mahathir (ex-Malaysia PM) about logging. "You rich countries already have your money. You got it by raping your environments. We will continue logging until we are prosperous." Hmmm....

You can do your business on my lawn as long as it covers 7/8s of my living space. i.e. the ocean is big, really big.


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Originally Posted by Aquah0lic View Post

I have a distaste for bandwagon environment groupies who champion a cause founded on propaganda and misrepresented facts just so they can have a reason to like themselves. <snip>

Mother Earth does not need to be pampered by us insignifigent humans. She could take our worst and never break stride. <snip>

Corporations do the most polluting. Let's look at a company that makes... holding tanks! How much pollution and toxins are being spewed onto the Earth so we can feel good about not crapping in the ocean?
Let's not label people or one of my moderator peers will kill this thread. It's about done anyway I guess...

I agree that protecting the earth is really abobut protecting the species. The earth has been covered with lava, covered with ice, covered with gasses. The earth will be fine. Screwing up gets rid of us and mother earth could shake us off like a bad cases of fleas...

I don't buy the "they pollute more so it's ok for me to pollute less" theory. I do wonder about the pollutants used in making a plastic holding tank vs. the pollutants dropped off shore from human waste. I'd vote for the human waste...


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Originally Posted by richardhula View Post
Come on tree-huggers, stop quoting impractical rules and bad reporting in journals and start getting real. There is an awful lot of ocean out there.
Let's not call names. It never ends nicely...

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Originally Posted by rtbates View Post
You don't?? IF humans ate only what fishes do, yea. BUT we don't. The history of human deseases caused by waste prior to proper handling of said is well documented.
Contrary to cburgers post below, I am a believer in dilution. Plagues and all kinds of disease are exacerbated by waste. That's why we invented sewerage systems to carry it away from the populations.

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Man Bruce you are so correct! At the risk of sounding sanctimonious I want to preface my remarks by saying that I have spent the last 27+ years as a water and wastewater treatment professional. <snip>


o Now the bad news. Of the original 200 hundred known chemicals addressed by the "Clean Water Act" we are only doing a fair job of removing these from our waterways.

<snip>
Water is a scarce and precious resource that people, generally from places where it is abundant use and abuse. 70 percent of the worlds "Available" fresh water is in North America. What is the rest of the world going to do as the population continues to explode, (Water wars).


The theory that we can continue to dump our sewerage and garbage into the water and the tides and currents are magically going to take care of it is called "Dilution" and has been shown very clearly to be bunk.

The number one stressor of the world’s environment is over population.

Thanks for weighing in with a professional opinion.

I know the chemical issue is also critical but your post talks a lot about the corporations and the chemicals. This is a human waste discussion. The reason America prospered in part was because we have huge waterways in which to build town and villages, and a place to dump our waste as well. We really found out what a bad idea that was in recent years. I applaud the society as a whole for realizing their errors and cleaning up a lot of the damage done.

Water is not scarce - fresh water is scarce. Eventually we will be desalinating an a huge scale with nuclear power for fuel. It is inevitable.

Water will get expensive but that's OK becasue we won't be wasting our money on fossil fuels because they will all be gone too.

Dilution - I'll leave my opinion in this thread with this. I am a believer in dilution. Don't dump in enclosed spots, understand tides, dump at sea, don't dump in shallow anchorages or on small lakes and harbors.

Common sense.

Overpopulation, or overconcentration of population is really the problem. So who gets to stay? Obviously an unsolvable problem on its face.

I am here in Bali. I must say Kuta beach is a complete toilet. My son and I walked the beach at low tide and there were literally thousands and thousands of dead fish along the coast lilne along with a ton or more of plastic and every other kind of human waste. Out of control and an example of what happens with no rules and no enforcement.

Now having said that, we did swim and Josh learned to surf. We aren't dead but it wasn't beautiful...

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Originally Posted by bstreep View Post

I just love how tree-huggers can justify their position with inane "facts" like this.
No name calling please....


Quote:
Originally Posted by MidLandOne View Post



Many around seem to be frightened to drink rainwater, municipal water, water out of tanks, etc - perhaps they think its all pooped in .
Where I grew up in Oz our only water was collected rainwater in tanks. When the tanks got low in late summer we go in the tanks ond go frogging. This was untreated flushed off the dirty roof rainwater. None of us died... Go figure...


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Originally Posted by Chuck Baier View Post
I think those that have chosen the irresponsible route when it comes to handling sewage on board their boats have made themselves known and their beliefs and practices are not going to chance. The rest of us will do the right thing ourselves but we are not going to change them. we can only hope we don't wind up in the same harbor they frequent.
I still think it's about common sense. Some places you know won't flush because of lack of currents. If it is crowded with lot's of boats then the concentrations of fecal matter could be a problem. If it is not so crowded then maybe not.

I must say that even in crowded marinas like sebana cove here I hear people flush out but have never seen a Baby Ruth. I also wouldn't swim in the marina if I could avoid it but I would if I needed to do something on the boat.

I have faith that the cruisers I meet are pretty low impact, aware people. I think the issue is the casual boater but again from an American perspective with the huge number of watercraft in the US it is more understandable than say Australia or other countries with relatively fewer boats per coastline mile.
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Old 25-12-2008, 21:34   #113
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I agree with s/v Faith. Most all the cruisers I have friendships with go directly overboard all the time. In a marina they may try to use shoreside facilities, but when at anchor it is overboard. Many of them tell me there has been nothing in their holding tanks since they were flushed two years ago or since new or whenever. From San Diego to Panama, not much in the way of pump outs.
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Old 25-12-2008, 21:54   #114
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Maybe I am way off, but my understanding is that the chemical additives added to a holding tank (and then discharged the appropriate number of miles off) or the chemicals added by the raw sewage discharge plants to pumped out holding tanks were a lot more harmful to the sea environment than just plain human sewage from a sailboat.

So in my view it is a matter to complying with the laws even though we ultimately damage the environment in the process.
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Old 25-12-2008, 23:00   #115
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Much A-Do-Do About Nothing!

We know that ingesting human sh8t can make you sick as they can carry diseases (bacteria, viruses and parasites) specifically harmful to humans. Waterborne transmission from a carrier, whether it is from eating contaminated fish, accidentally drinking polluted seawater while swimming, spray from breaking waves on the skin or inhaled is normal daily risks…… so like anything else you must make judgment calls to protect yourself.

Those who chose to live in highly populated…polluted marina environments because of social conveniences will naturally be at high risk and there is little actual health relief from banning direct discharge, however, it is aesthetically more pleasing not to see what your neighbor had for dinner.

While the dilution theory helps in the more remote areas, all seas are alive with infectious diseases and there is always a risk of contracting an infection while swimming. The warmer and more Tropical the water, the higher the risk, even without sewage contamination!

So the bottom line is to be considerate to your neighbor but realize that swimming in Tropical waters or eating seafood, especially filter feeders like shellfish are higher risk activities. So be prepared to treat infections and keep pumping up your immune levels.

For better information you can read this:

http://www.rsmas.miami.edu/groups/ni...%20Quality.pdf
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Old 26-12-2008, 11:07   #116
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Old 26-12-2008, 11:57   #117
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I think those that have chosen the irresponsible route when it comes to handling sewage on board their boats have made themselves known and their beliefs and practices are not going to chance. The rest of us will do the right thing ourselves but we are not going to change them. we can only hope we don't wind up in the same harbor they frequent. The arguments can go on but won't change anything in my opinion. A wise sage here on the board said of such arguments, "never get into a wrestling match with a pig. In the end you just get dirty and the pig likes it."

thanks for being so 'tolerant' with your opinions.
Opinions are like...

what a load of moral superiority. you speak like the algore preaching co2 reductions from his 100' motor yacht
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Old 26-12-2008, 15:53   #118
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you speak like the algore preaching co2 reductions from his 100' motor yacht
Getinthere, leave your freakin' political opinions at the door when ya enter this forum.
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Old 26-12-2008, 17:11   #119
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Getinthere, leave your freakin' political opinions at the door when ya enter this forum.
Speaking facts is not "political opinions". algore does preach the evils of co2 emmisions while recently buying a 100' motor yacht.
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Old 26-12-2008, 17:56   #120
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you speak like the algore preaching co2 reductions from his 100' motor yacht
Here's a description of Al's boat from the builder: Austin proclaims. “It is the most eco-friendly houseboat anywhere in the country and is going to revolutionize the houseboat industry. People are increasingly worried about high gas prices and this is the answer.” Austin claims that the “Bio-Solar One” will create 40-50% less carbon emission and use half the fuel of other similar houseboats. “Gore will consume a lot more fuel driving to and from the lake than he will ever use cruising on this houseboat,” Austin asserts.

The solar panels have not yet been installed but are expected to arrive from Reno, Nevada “any day” and will be in working order “soon,” says Austin.

When the solar panels are installed the Gore boat could power itself and “most of the dock” according to Austin.

Like I said Getin there, I really dont want to hear your stance on ANYTHING political, let alone your disinformation. This is a cruisers forum...
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