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Old 19-12-2008, 19:13   #76
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in waverider's defense...

...I note that he hails from Nova Scotia. I've done a bit of cruising in Canadian waters, and have learned that concerns about raw sewage are far less pronounced the further north one travels. Part of this is because pump-out stations are a rarity north of the border, but my own theory is that the water's so cold up there that most of the yachting community doesn't swim in anchorages or harbors. I tried it once, and will probably never do so again.

I suspect, correspondingly, that sensitivities about raw sewage increase the further south one goes and the more likely one is to actually jump into the local waters. Waverider has discovered the general consensus of the sailing community down here, and is responding accordingly. Good for him!
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Old 19-12-2008, 20:27   #77
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Is there a Doctoral program in it somewhere?


No. One just needs a nursery school level of common sense and a lack of willingness to be led by the nose, both of which seem to be beyond the ken of the average man these days .

I have to wonder about the level of common sense in a country I occasionally visit (not saying which one ) that has the likes of warnings on the doors of workplace cafeterias that microwave hazards exist inside, for example .

Many around seem to be frightened to drink rainwater, municipal water, water out of tanks, etc - perhaps they think its all pooped in .
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Old 19-12-2008, 21:08   #78
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I suspect, correspondingly, that sensitivities about raw sewage increase the further south one goes and the more likely one is to actually jump into the local waters.
I am many thousands of miles south of you, so you would claim that you are MUCH more likely to discharge black water than I am.

Mmmm, you must be pumping out tons of it . We have a secret pooper in our midst who is in denial I think .
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Old 19-12-2008, 21:27   #79
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I think this thread has long ago outlived its usefulness.
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Old 20-12-2008, 05:09   #80
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I think this thread has long ago outlived its usefulness.
negative! (nothing personal Chuck) the only problem with this thread and its usefulness is that a few hundred folk read it, several dozen interact with it and hopefully take heed of the message, but the rest of the planet doesnt give a **** about ****.

years ago my daughter & i spent many happy months in pago pago (nu'uuli) with friends and witnessed (for the first time) this tree burning ritual that will happen again shortly. whilst we were snorkelling off the beach (coconut point) inside the reef i said to my good friend what type of sea worm are these things floating about, "dont ask" and immediately lost interest in being underwater, suggested to my daughter that she might like to stop poking at the things... we were based in puipaa western samoa at the time, our boat was moored to our clothes line inside the reef and we didnt have that problem there but it was a very small village... (chortle chortle the biggest problem i had in puipaa was that my housekeeper would always rip her gear off whilst i was getting in the car to take my daughter to school and me to work, she was never there of an evening!!)

i really dont give a damn where the folk who read this forum live sail mate or die, it doesnt matter a snap if the contributors are dreamers or doers, rich or poor, but gee it pis sesme off to see the lack of respect people have for the oceans. i've seen marine biologists causing just as much damage to the coastline as i have traditional landowners and defence forces, truth be known the government agencies are the worst offenders.

humankind has done a pretty good job of stuffing up the atmosphere and its about time individuals made an effort to stop the degradation of the hydrosphere...

if you think i'm an idiot go down to your bilge, drill a hole through it, catch some local water in a coke bottle and compare the quality of your local water beside your mountain spring mineral water bottle, then just think about what you see for an hour or two...

at the end of the day fkyz if you want to enjoy the oceans but not care for them go back to your dodgey little ticky tacky boxes and rot...
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Old 20-12-2008, 09:34   #81
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The number one stressor of the world’s environment is over population.

[C2]
And there you have it.
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Old 20-12-2008, 09:39   #82
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The special enzymes in the gel also kill bacteria and promote the breakdown of waste and bags.
).
This part makes me say hmmmmm. Which bacteria are left alive to do the breakdown work? I think there is some salesman here and not as much science as L&L would want.
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Old 20-12-2008, 10:06   #83
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This part makes me say hmmmmm. Which bacteria are left alive to do the breakdown work? I think there is some salesman here and not as much science as L&L would want.
FWIW, I'm familiar with the Wag Bag product, as we use them in camping in rock/granite areas where the right thing is to pack our poo out (for example when four wheeling on the Rubicon trail in the California Sierras).

I don't believe Phillips Environmental ever claims there is no bacteria left. Used Wag Bags can legally be thrown away in the trash (at least in the USA). As stated on their website: "They are approved for disposal with normal trash as group II non-hazardous waste." As far as the poo powder itself, Phillips says "It is a specially engineered mix of a non-toxic polymer based absorbent, along with an organic decay catalyst & odor neutralizer".

Just passing along the info from Phillips on this product. While I've used their bags for about 5 years while camping, I've never really considered using them onboard the boat - I'm not sure handling smelly bags of poop is more manageable than a holding tank for marine use.
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Old 20-12-2008, 11:02   #84
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A small holding tank is a good thing. Then you can retain your solid waste and dump it outside harbor. The Halberg Rassy approach is excellent. They mount a small tank well above the waterline, the head always discharges into the tank at top, there is a short hose and valve at the bottom. If you open the valve, the waste gravity discharges out. If you shut the valve, you are legal. No Y valve and simple. Does take some space from that bathroom cabinet though.
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Old 20-12-2008, 13:32   #85
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to see the lack of respect people have for the oceans. ...

I don't see much lack of respect for the oceans here on CF. This thread just a few days old and nearly 90 posts to it!
We do respect our oceans. We just have a range of opinions.

I don't think anyone could sail in any patch of water and seeing dolphins, whales, turtles, fish etc etc can fail to be moved.

If the method we use to dispose of waste is carefully thought out by us individually then the sum total of us will be doing the right thing no matter the number of different methods.

What, perhaps, we should do as an extension to it is to keep picking up plastic on our walks ashore.

In any method poop biodegrades. Most plastics are here forever and it seems only us that can remove it from the pristine uninhabited beaches as well as the populated ones.

Whatever we do lets keep discussing it whilst honoring those of different opinions.

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Old 20-12-2008, 13:42   #86
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I morally dont have a problem with Human waist being discharged from my head.
Could be a physical problem though.
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Old 20-12-2008, 18:34   #87
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I don't see much lack of respect for the oceans here on CF. This thread just a few days old and nearly 90 posts to it!
We do respect our oceans. We just have a range of opinions.
Mark, I'd have to disagree..."Mother Earth does not need to be pampered by us insignifigent humans. She could take our worst and never break stride. "

Do ya truely believe that? I know I dont, and it discusts me to no end. I dont know where these people come from, but down in the Keys I have witnessed the killing of large areas of the barrier reef in less than 20 years. How can we be so blind? This has nothing to do with holding tanks, but would it kill these people to hold their discharge until they are out at sea? I have anchored in harbors where you couldnt pay me to swim (Boot Key, to name one) and I KNOW most "cruisers" there rarely move, and some couldnt if they wanted to. How 'bout we respect our oceans, AND respect our fellow cruisers by holding our sludge until we are offshore? Is this really too much to ask?
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Old 20-12-2008, 22:02   #88
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There's a reason why there are no discharge zones. There is no excuse for dumping untreated waste into the ocean. The contents of a holding tank should either be pumped out or run through a macerator.
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Old 20-12-2008, 23:00   #89
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I also don't buy in that human feces is any worse than shark, whale or dolphin feces. And there are a heck of a lot of fish pooping in the water.

Im not sure what impact aquatic feces have on humans, but human fecal contaminated oysters, clams, and scallops can pass on diseases such as severe intestinal disturbances, typhoid, salmonella, and hepatitis to humans.


Did yall notice that I used the term feces instead of crap?
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Old 20-12-2008, 23:16   #90
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I suppose I'll post one more time to clarify.

I don't throw crap out of my car windows or dump old oil in the woods. I am not the environmental anti-christ. In fact, I am more sensitive to the environment than most people I know. The statement I made that is causing Christian Van H to have an aneurism is simply fact. Mankind could poison and pollute itself to extinction and a few hundred years later, (just moments in the life of the planet) it would be like we were never even here. Man is nothing but a temporary nuisance to this planet. We are a flea on the dog.

That said, I do not advocate reckless pollution. It makes living here less pleasurable by masking the beauty of nature in filth. The difference between myself and some is my ability to use common sense and good judgment to decide what is good and bad regardless of what 'they' say.

You think the water in the keys is nasty because of some boats in the harbor? I think its because for over 20 years, Florida has been pumping sewage into wells under the sea bed. Is this bad? Not really, unless your pumping several hundred million gallons PER DAY like they are down there. It weeps back up through the porous substrate into the fresh water aquifers and the sea. If you want to be disgusted and outraged, your energy would be better spent here than worrying about a guy flushing a turd from a boat. How long would it take the cruising community to produce 300 million gallons of sewage?

If you REALLY want to make a difference, combat atrocities like this or the mega-corps doing the real damage and don't let them convince you that you are the problem.
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