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Old 04-04-2009, 20:30   #16
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Tell me about it, I had a 2yr old one and a new 8hp 4 stroke honda stolen last summer. But luckily it was fully insured and replaced. I use a ss chain and 3 locks these days.
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Old 05-04-2009, 05:00   #17
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Djef I am glad you recover them thru your insurance policy, since I am new to sailing and I did not used any chain to secure the turbines of the corp jet I flew before would you explain me more about a ss chain? I wish I could integrate a GPS to the engine but I think this is not possible yet.

I was also thinking in using a custom made loud alarm fo the engine, it will trigger if the engine is removed from the stern (thru a couple of spring microswitches)

Thanks,
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:13   #18
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Planing through an anchorage is standard in the Caribbean and as most lunatics don't get that far from home, I don't think it's making things less safe or comfortable. What I do not like is dinghies that only just don't go into plane: these are the ones that pull a huge wake, rocking all boats in the anchorage etc. Also, planing saves fuel big time and gives drier rides. Bigger diameter tubes help too but only if you plane (even drier ride). Big tubes without planing is still a wet ride.

When comparing weights you have to realize that 4-stroke is much bigger and much heavier. Also, in many countries they will laugh at it when you need it repaired. They don't even have the parts, sometimes they never saw it before. In the range of dinghy motors it's purely 2-stroke out here. Come to the cruising grounds with what you have and buy a new 2-stroke here. Much cheaper too. The Yamaha Enduro series rule (professional use line) but also weigh more. I think 8-10' dinghies with 15hp outboard are the most common combination in the Caribbean.

I was charmed by the small (like 4 hp) 4-strokes and considered one for spare motor until I heard of the problems. Cleaning carburetors was a daily job for many when the gas isn't as clean as "back home". 2-strokes deal with any quality gas.

About speed: I measured it with handheld GPS. An Avon RIB-310 with 15hp Mercury and my big 250 pound body does 22 knots in calm water, 16 knots with two people. A Caribe C12 with 25hp Enduro does 25 knots with 1-3 persons, 18 knots with 4 persons. I fitted those "wings" on the anti-cavitation plate for better control. The C12 will go uphill with a 1' chop like a bat out of hell in relative comfort and without getting wet. You still stay dry in a 2' chop if you manage to stay in the dinghy... we tack upwind in those conditions. We took both dinghies mentioned above out into the big waves (8' or so) and could do every course on plane without trouble. We actually catch fish that way when we feel like having it for dinner.

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 06-04-2009, 05:24   #19
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Planing does make smaller waves and that is less disturbing, but speeding though so fast is a but unnerving. In the closer tight anchorages it is not necessary. But as you get further and further out some speed makes the journey shorter.

I used a 10' x 1/8" SS chain I got from McMaster Carr which I locked the motor and the dink to an eyebolt for example on a floating dock when I am paranoid and plan to leave it for a long time.

There is dinghy dock etiquette to consider because others need to use the dock so security has to be balance against this. At my summer mooring, I've found a location which satisfies both.
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Old 06-04-2009, 05:35   #20
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If you're going cruising get the biggest outboard your dink will take and get a 2 stroke. If you're just piddling out to a mooring get the smaller one. Your dink is your lifeline when you're cruising, especially down here in the Bahamas, lugging fuel and water and groceries not to mention going miles and miles exploring. Also if you're unlucky you might have to tow the big boat with the little one or push it off a sandbar. If you can't lift the outboard easily the Garhauer crane is the best thing going.For cruising stay away from four strokes, nothing but trouble and very hard to find decent service.
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Old 06-04-2009, 05:40   #21
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defjef thanks for the chain info, sounds like very discouraging for Madoff type of guys who likes dinks

Thanks Vasco, I already have a 15 HP 2 stroke capable of towing my CL41 and djef did recommend the Garhauer crane too, great advice Vasco, you guys know your stuff...I am just a novice trying to learn haha
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:00   #22
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Lots of people complain about 4 strokes which are relatively new to the market and are supposed to have some advantages.

Are the problems with these engines going to be solved in the not to distant future or is there something fatally wrong about all of them? I suppose the weight issue might not go away, but won't reliability and service improve as more come on the market?

I can understand that when something like the Yahama 15 is extremely common around the world you can get better support for it in more places and if it has such broad market penetration Yamaha has worked out all the kinks in the design. That makes sense and would be a reason to go woth this motor for world wide cruising.

I can't help but think if the OB is to remain and the world moves toward greener engines then the 4 stroke may become more and more common and the "problems" with be solved.

No?
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Old 06-04-2009, 08:38   #23
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With two strokes you never have to "change the oil" so maintenance is not a factor. Four strokes require oil changes and I would be less likely to want to take one apart and work on it. Two strokes also produce more torque with a better power to weight ratio's.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:11   #24
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Hi,
My tuppenceworth.
Go as big as you can handle but do not forget a possible need to haul up both dink and engine together.
We've ended up with 6 hp on a 3 M plastic floor Zodiac. Planes with 2. Flies with 1.
As you have a larger maybe heavier dink, maybe worth checking out if you can get a 6 hp modified to 8hp or more? Could save weight and money.
IMHO two stroke better than four as they simply weigh less.
Good luck
JOHN
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:05   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by defjef View Post
Are the problems with these engines going to be solved in the not to distant future or is there something fatally wrong about all of them? I suppose the weight issue might not go away, but won't reliability and service improve as more come on the market?
I don't think that the design is the problem. Small 4-strokes have small carburators with a tiny orifice which easily clogs up and using 3rd world gas is dirty enough to make this a certainty. I think this is the case because from 15 hp and up the 4-strokes seem much more reliable here but at that size the weight and physical size becomes the problem. My 25hp 2-stroke is smaller than a 15hp 4-stroke.

Also: 4-stroke isn't what makes these engines greener. There are already 2-strokes that are even cleaner but the technology is expensive and only big outboards have it. A 4-stroke that weighs much more and has many more parts takes much more resources and energy to produce so the 2-stroke is cleaner for manufacturing, transporting and selling them! ;-)
Also, the green-factor with 4-strokes assumes that the old oil gets disposed of in a green matter which isn't available in most of the world. Putting a dinghy just in plane without going max speed is much greener than the slow or max speed options that most cruisers do. Sensible behavior is more important than choice of outboard for the green factor.

ciao!
Nick.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:18   #26
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Handling the heavy o/b

G'Day, all,

No one seems to have mentioned this common method of lifting an o/b off of the dinghy...

For the last 23 years we,ve used the main haliyard to lift our 15 hp o/b on and off the dink, and to transport it to its resting place on the stern rail. The haliyard winch gives plenty of mechanical advantage, and if one marks the haliyard at the critical point it is a quick and easy job. We set the dinghy alongside with the motor abeam the mast, hoist it to the mark, and then walk it back to the stern where it is lowered onto the bracket. Takes less than a minute, requires no additional gear, and has the advantage of being useable even in choppy anchorages since the motor is near the center of rotation for pitching. A downside is difficulty when the boat is rolling heavily! The process is reversed to mount the o/b on the dink.

I will also add my recommendation for a motor big enough to plane the dink with at least the normal ships' crew aboard, and I agree with all of the reasons listed in posts above. The dink is one of the most important bits of kit in your cruising inventory. I also agree that 2 stroke motors are better for cruising in remote and third world areas. I am not convinced of the inherent "green-ness" of the four strokes, and I have observed many fellow cruisers having grave problems with them, and little help available to solve the problems. Finally, at least in the South Pacific area, Yamahas are the commonest motors, and are the most likely to have spares available when needed.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 06-04-2009, 13:53   #27
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Thanks Jim, good advice

Defjef is this the chain you were referring to? Which of the two?

McMaster-Carr

Thank you
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Old 06-04-2009, 14:07   #28
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I've ridden an aircraft ejection seat, and dropped over 3' wakes in a planing rib. The pain is the same. Exactly.
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Old 06-04-2009, 14:47   #29
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Soft,

It's the straight link 1/8" no rust, takes a standard Abus lock.
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Old 06-04-2009, 15:28   #30
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Unless you envisage long distance trips maybe to dive I see little merit in a large outboard.

I have a 4hp 2 stroke Yamaha fitted on a Caribe 4 man dinghy. It's great, does all I ask of it, plus I can lift it onto the pushpit easily. The added advantage is that thieves are far more likely to go for the bigger faster models!

Yes sometimes I get a bit wet, but I also don't have to carry much gas...
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