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Old 20-01-2015, 00:22   #31
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

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Made me splutter coffee all over the screen in the early morning before clinic.

Going to be a good day.........
Sheesh, Weavis, your poor ole screen takes a real beating. Maybe you should get some help with sphincter control??? Or perhaps coffee is the best monitor screen cleanser around, I dunno!

Oh, if that is a good day's start, what is a bad one?

Jim
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Old 20-01-2015, 00:54   #32
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

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Sheesh, Weavis, your poor ole screen takes a real beating. Maybe you should get some help with sphincter control??? Or perhaps coffee is the best monitor screen cleanser around, I dunno!

Oh, if that is a good day's start, what is a bad one?

Jim
Ah Jim. Starting the day is always good with a laugh. Yesterday was a catalogue of experiences that did not encourage laughter, and drove me to dig deep to see the positive side. I still have to clean up the residue of yesterdays effects, but in the main if money can solve an issue its only an expense. It means I have less, but I had it to spend, and the problem is resolved. If I can still laugh the day after, its OK.
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Old 20-01-2015, 02:47   #33
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

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Originally Posted by essej4269 View Post
For example. Our cruising would entail, day trips. Weekend trip around the fl keys, Year long cruises every few years around the Caribbean, perhaps a few east coast great loops. Most of the gulf of mexico. I would never anticipate a transoceanic passage of any kind.

Does such cruising constitute coastal cruising or would a so-called blue water boat be needed? Sailboat would be roughly 80's on age, sloop or ketch fiberglass hull. 34-45 foot.

thoughts?
.. biggest diff between 'blue water' and the rest of us is stowage for stuff you may or may not need... and if you buy a 'blue water boat' you get to wear a fancy hat and walk funny.

For me? a younger boat, sloop, FG, .. no in mast furling main... thats about it

Good luck
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Old 20-01-2015, 03:01   #34
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

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Yeah, you've nailed it, alright... Nothing but a bunch of wankers over there, for sure...
This couple 'cruised' the Chilean canals and Patagonia without an engine... I mean, Seriously ??? What the hell could anyone sailing without an engine possibly know about REAL Kroozing, after all?
A kiwi bloke passed through PM a few years ago... maybe 2007... wooden unzud built H28 he had sailed over from NZ... no engine... reckoned he would do the channels single handed with just a sweep to get in and out of anchorages... we prevailed on him to fit a small outboard... they reckon he was a changed man when he passed through PW....

I once did PE-PW with a blown head gasket... a friend sailed from south of PE to PM with a stuffed gearbox.... you can do anything if you really have to.... but life is nicer when stuff works...
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Old 20-01-2015, 05:00   #35
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

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Then all of Puget Sound is blue water.
You are absolutely right if you select the portion of my statement that suggests that coastal cruiser make passages within accurate weather predicted windows; however, you must consider that I was only refering to major storm systems. Although variances in weather in Puget Sound and most everywhere can include unpredictable changes, these are a matter of inconvenience and not risks for a typical coastal cruiser.

I don't cruise in the Pacific Northwest, so maybe I'm missing something. Are you saying that you can not depend upon a three day forecast without a major storm system? In my cruising range I always can depend on accurately knowing what to expect regarding major weather systems for at least three days.
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Old 20-01-2015, 05:29   #36
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

Bluewater=Self contained. You're equipped to handle anything weather, supply, spares, communications etc. that come up.
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Old 20-01-2015, 06:37   #37
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

The coastal water here is blue, and seven thousand feet deep.

I love it when I see people describe the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean as these big benign always calm bodies of water. I spent almost 40 years working offshore and a lot of it was in the GOM and Caribbean. Been through quite a few storms in oceanographic and similar vessels. 60 ft. seas north of Scapa Flow in a 50 ft. fishing boat trying to snag a million bucks worth of oceanographic moorings using their nets in December, that kind of thing. I suspect a lot of these experts got most of their sailing experience staring at charts, maps, and Google Earth in their living room at home.
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Old 20-01-2015, 07:26   #38
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

Then there's the issue that even with coastal cruising boats, you are more likely to fail than the boat.

Most modern boats kept in good condition are fully capable of ocean crossings. 500gal water tanks are nice because you can be sloppy with water and get away with it but by no means are they a requirement for blue water cruising.

Given your proposed cruising, I would place a high value on shoal draft and a reliable motor (many people won't admit it but once on the ICW, most sailboats are using thier motors better than 90% of the time)
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Old 20-01-2015, 07:33   #39
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

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Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
A kiwi bloke passed through PM a few years ago... maybe 2007... wooden unzud built H28 he had sailed over from NZ... no engine... reckoned he would do the channels single handed with just a sweep to get in and out of anchorages... we prevailed on him to fit a small outboard... they reckon he was a changed man when he passed through PW....

I once did PE-PW with a blown head gasket... a friend sailed from south of PE to PM with a stuffed gearbox.... you can do anything if you really have to.... but life is nicer when stuff works...
Couldn't agree more... I know folks have cruised places like the coast of Labrador sans engine, or minimally powered, as well... I just shake my head in amazement, I can't imagine why anyone would prefer to subject themselves to such an elevated level of risk, or that sort of misery... :-)

However, I'm not gonna go so far as to brand those who've managed it successfully as being "clueless"... :-)

Like most every other sailing/cruising forum, CRUISING ANARCHY houses the full spectrum of opinion and range of experience. Some of it might not be worth much, but much of it is extremely well informed, IMHO, some pretty knowledgeable and experienced sailors and industry professionals hanging out there...

Certainly seem to be fewer of the "What is the Best Bluewater Boat for a Circumnavigation for Under $10K ?" variety of threads started over there, than some other forums I can think of...

:-))
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Old 20-01-2015, 09:04   #40
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

There can be masters of calligraphy unable to write an interesting story or a successful author with illegible handwritting.

In this same manner cruisers can be extremely proficient as "coastal" or "bluewater" adventurers and, at the same time, lack some of the attributes of their counterpart.

I am an unabashed coastal cruiser who would lack any motivation to endure the passages that some find rewarding, especially in those high cold latitudes.

No one choice is the better, more esteemed or even the choice of the more experienced cruiser.
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Old 20-01-2015, 09:48   #41
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

Hudson Force----👍👍
I like your response.

To others, I hope that Lin and Larry Pardey are not reading this Thread, they'll be truly disappointed to know that their Taleisin was not a "blue water cruiser"...😞

Life is good if you Keepa Smilin ...😊




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Old 20-01-2015, 10:11   #42
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

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Hudson Force----����
I like your response.

To others, I hope that Lin and Larry Pardey are not reading this Thread, they'll be truly disappointed to know that their Taleisin was not a "blue water cruiser"...��

Life is good if you Keepa Smilin ...��




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If someone gave me the choice of thier boat (and I can't retrofit an engine and other modern systems) or a well built modern coastal cruiser, I would go with the modern boat for offshore.

While I wouldn't downplay thier abilities, Magellan took old square riggers round the horn. Doesn't mean square riggers are the boat of choice today.

They Pardays have sold a man (and woman) against the sea myth and while they appear to be quite happy, there are really only bits and pieces that are useful for the average cruiser.
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Old 20-01-2015, 10:20   #43
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

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I love it when I see people describe the Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean as these big benign always calm bodies of water.
The Great Lakes don't get much respect either. Probably the most remembered snubbing was by Ted Turner. He passed Lake Michigan off as a "mill pond" prior to the Chicago-Mac race in 1970. Winds that year hit 60 knots and half the fleet withdrew. During the race he reportedly said, “I publicly retract anything and everything I have ever said about inland sailing,” I remember reading something to the effect that he thought we were nuts.
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Old 20-01-2015, 10:21   #44
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

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If someone gave me the choice of thier boat (and I can't retrofit an engine and other modern systems) or a well built modern coastal cruiser, I would go with the modern boat for offshore.

While I wouldn't downplay thier abilities, Magellan took old square riggers round the horn. Doesn't mean square riggers are the boat of choice today.

They Pardays have sold a man (and woman) against the sea myth and while they appear to be quite happy, there are really only bits and pieces that are useful for the average cruiser.
That is sure a strong statement! I think those two have forgotten more than most of us knew in the first place. I'm not sure what those bits and pieces would be but I would sure be interested in knowing!! I'd take the modern boat as well by the way.
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Old 20-01-2015, 10:29   #45
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Re: Difference Between Coastal And Blue Water Cruising

Our new boat was purchased specifically to go out in the deep blue with 10 day and more passages. However, it only has 45 gal of diesel. I do worry about that but the boat sails 100% better in light airs and to weather than our previous boat with 200+ gal of diesel. Both have good water tankage.

Having only the small diesel tankage is a concern (for me) despite hearing from a couple of blue water cruisers with the same boat who have not missed the extra fuel. But I am considering adding a second fuel tank in the bow, both for peace of mind and for trimming the stern heavy boat. I will also do the usual in carrying jerry cans on deck for long passages despite not liking the weight against my lifelines in a place that messes with stability and is unsightly. But we did that with our other boat too.

Otherwise each boat is what I would consider offshore capable but they are entirely different in almost every respect. Except one - their systems are in top notch shape with redundancy built in. I will put on a wind vane pilot (to save fuel and electricity) and as a backup to the wheel pilot. I value an autopilot so much that I will put in a second electric/hydraulic autopilot expense/PITA work be damned.

Regarding sailing around with no engine - more power (pun intended) to them if that is what floats their boats. I have nothing but respect for those folks, at least those who don't kill innocent crew and/or spouses or risk the lives of rescue personnel. Sailing two years in and out of New Zealand showed me how much can be cheerfully done with little better than a light weight "coastal" boat that I would be unhappy to take 50 miles along the shore. One of my best friends lost a coolant hose while we were taking his little open cockpit boat downriver from a boat yard to his mooring - about 7 miles.

No worries! He pulled out a water hose (like a water hose for your garden) and whacked off a suitable piece and put it on the engine. The next season he took the boat up to Fiji and back with the hose still on. And this is one of the most rugged pieces of ocean I have ever experienced. Gotta respect those kiwis. They don't let lack of funds and fancy boats to keep them in their living rooms dreaming about going sailing.

We personally got the crap beat out of us in our heavy "offshore" boat coming in and going out from the same port two different years, and actually could have lost the boat on two passages. I don't think I would have crewed with my friend out there in his little boat but he was comfortable and self reliant to a fault. I have nothing but respect (and friendship) for this sailor.

As much as I respect the Pardeys, I would not crew with them either. Not my cup of tea. But I have friends here who travel the country living in the back of their standard soccer mom van, going without showers for days. Not for me either.
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