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Old 17-11-2015, 12:38   #61
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Re: Derelict Boats

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I think it's an indicator that the average working person for whatever reason hasn't the disposable income they once had, that cruising capable boats are no longer or at least less affordable for the average person.
For example how many of us bought older boats because to be truthful, we couldn't afford a new one? I know I couldn't afford new, I admit it.

Maybe the derelicts exist to some extent because the market has sort of dried up?

What is the production rate for new boats compared to the 70's and 80's?
Good observations.

Disposable income for the "class" of us folks is way down. Economy 101. Also interests.

I bought an older boat of the same exact model because my wife & I realized that a new 1998 boat cost TWICE what we could get a then 12 year old boat for. And I also thought that after another 12 years those guys would have to do the exact same thing I'd have to do with this new-to-us boat: upgrade the electrical system and change all the damn hoses on the engine. I wasn't far off.

Production rates: I can tell you one thing that I know for sure: the Catalina 34, when first produced, made 1,000 hulls in the first say about five years of production, base cost around $85K. The new "replacement" C355 (same interior layout, improved systems on board) has maybe 200 to 250 hulls in the first five years. Of course, the cost of the new boat is probably at least one and a half times what the last C34 off the line was in 2007 or 2009 ($106K IIRC). A total of 1,801 C34s were made from 1986 to 2007 or 9. Things were pretty much the same for the venerable Catalina 36, replaced by the C375.

I couldn't afford new in 1998!

But, we do have a "keeper!!!"
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Old 17-11-2015, 13:09   #62
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Re: Derelict Boats

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...how many of us bought older boats because to be truthful, we couldn't afford a new one? I know I couldn't afford new, I admit it.

Maybe the derelicts exist to some extent because the market has sort of dried up?...
Actually these are related.

Going up, along with the price of new boats, has been the cost to slip, operate and maintain these boats. Buying a used boat, at a price which is a fraction of the new boat, is one thing. But the maintenance costs can be much greater, due to age and deferred maintenance.
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Old 17-11-2015, 16:02   #63
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Re: derelict boats

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Nobody wants this crap parked on front of their house, McMansion or not. I see no difference between a derelict boat and a car up on cinder blocks, except the car probably doesn't stink as bad.
That's not crap, l can see potential.........
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Old 17-11-2015, 20:41   #64
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Re: derelict boats

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That's not crap, l can see potential.........
Kenomac is the enemy

Kenomac... please please do not come to Florida and buy a $20M McMansion... we have all the enemies we need!
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Old 18-11-2015, 02:58   #65
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Re: Derelict Boats

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Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
Actually these are related.

Going up, along with the price of new boats, has been the cost to slip, operate and maintain these boats. Buying a used boat, at a price which is a fraction of the new boat, is one thing. But the maintenance costs can be much greater, due to age and deferred maintenance.
I don't know the price of new boats in the US but here in europe the price of new has been going down for the last 8-10 years. This is partially due to the financial crisis but also due to the improved and streamlined production techniques that the big boatyards use today.

You can buy a fully loaded 33-35 footer (new) for under 100K euros today. Compare that to the $85+K the catalina 34 cost 2 decades ago. Anyone mention inflation? Even at 2% per year compounded it means that"real" price of of a new boat has dropped
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Old 18-11-2015, 05:18   #66
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Re: Derelict Boats

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What I find interesting is this Cruising "thing" is relatively recent phenomenon.
Unless I'm mistaken it has only really existed since the early 70's? So in 40 years it has run it's course?

I think it's an indicator that the average working person for whatever reason hasn't the disposable income they once had, that cruising capable boats are no longer or at least less affordable for the average person.
For example how many of us bought older boats because to be truthful, we couldn't afford a new one? I know I couldn't afford new, I admit it.

Maybe the derelicts exist to some extent because the market has sort of dried up?

What is the production rate for new boats compared to the 70's and 80's?
I think you may be on to something here. I would definitely have gotten a newer boat if I could have afforded it.

I could afford it if the gov't didn't take right at 40% of my pay every payday
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Old 18-11-2015, 07:12   #67
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Re: derelict boats

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Halfway between the two city marina's in the bay. It caught my eye when I was out in the dinghy as I though it had to be a bilge keel and went over to take a look, it's obviously aground


I go past this boat every morning to work, first she was anchored out few weeks ago but anchored only a few days then we had a bad storm came through and the tide surge was way up my dock even was under water i think she came off her hook and was pushed backwards to the shore line tide went down and their she sat, but now its been two weeks that that she been stuck in mud.
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Old 18-11-2015, 07:21   #68
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Re: Derelict Boats

It still has an anchor attached, to about 30 ' of rode. Small Danforth type of anchor, I'm guessing it was anchored with about 3 to 1 scope.
The boat that was laid on it's side in Smack Bayou is gone too, I think it's tied up in the City Marina awaiting disposal.

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Old 18-11-2015, 09:07   #69
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Re: Derelict Boats

it seems that the tide is up now and she is somewhat off the mud her scope is very short still bounding on keel so if anybody wants it should be now, looks like no hatch on it might have been stripped inside don't know
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Old 18-11-2015, 09:33   #70
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Re: Derelict Boats

No doubt that pic was FL was just refering to the one of the large ketch that wasn't really relevant to this thread as we're pretty much talking FL here not boats moored for long periods in foreign countries.

Anyway, there was a tagged boat here locally. A Morgan 33 wasn't really derelict but the owner is wanted in a few states and has supposedly fled to Central America. (Long story he actually has a bunch of kids in state custodian and was supposedly a NOAA employee)

So his boat gets tagged I guess because there was some water in the cockpit so the local police said it was "taking on water" you could barely read the writing on the tag as the "5 days" was now like 6 weeks.

The local PD told me they were waiting on bids to have it removed. Now my opinion is any decent law enforcement agency needs to wait the 5 days and then MOVE the boat themselves to either a yard or impound dock. Last week I noticed it was gone; I'm thinking "I can't believe they actually did their jobs"

Monday I was out sailing up by the airport. Guess what boat I see reanchored right along the intercostal???
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Old 18-11-2015, 10:15   #71
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Re: Derelict Boats

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Now my opinion is any decent law enforcement agency needs to wait the 5 days and then MOVE the boat themselves to either a yard or impound dock.
How many yards want those boats to now end up being abandoned in their yards and/or how many law enforcement agencies have impound docks they want to store the boats at?
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Old 18-11-2015, 10:44   #72
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Re: Derelict Boats

What if suddenly you had to deal with health or money problems? You have no choice but leave your boat somewhere because you cannot afford a marina. The further south you go the less time it takes a boat to look derelict. Say you fell and broke your crown and needed to mend, it could take a while. Your boat would be looking pretty sad before you could deal with it again.
There are free waterways left in the US, right?
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Old 18-11-2015, 11:33   #73
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Re: Derelict Boats

I haven't see the orange sticker put on anything, unless it's a hazard to navigation, or will obviously be a environmental concern, soon.
Like the boat in the picture, anybody think if it's left to be, that the outcome will be a good one?
I also feel real sure step one is the sticker, while they try to contact you, step two seems to be tow the thing to the City Marina and let it suck up a slip for some un-determinable time. The boat in the Marina now I'm pretty sure was laid over on her side for at least a year in Smack Bayou

Does anyone not think that the boats in obvious danger of becoming a wreck don't need to be dealt with this way?

I'm glad to see it being done, I don't want "My" Bay to turn into the dumping grounds I have seen further South.
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Old 18-11-2015, 12:18   #74
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Re: Derelict Boats

A Boatyard I used to work next to scrapped a bunch of small abandoned sailboats that were in their yard, up to about 26 feet. They just hired a couple of guys and they cut them up with saws. Pieces went into a big dumpster. I think one day they did most of 3 boats. Let's see... 2 guys = 16 hours at $10 an hour = $160 divided by 3 = $53 a boat. So maybe double that as the last 10% always takes a lot of time! Hauling costs were heavy though I suppose.
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Old 18-11-2015, 13:05   #75
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Re: Derelict Boats

Here in the county I live in they charge 145 a ton for garbage brought to the dump station. Just to reference weights I used my islander weight is 4200 lbs with 1700 in lead ballast, about 150 in mast and boom about another 200 in all the standing rigging and chain plates, about 40lbs in bronze fittings and winches, about 500 in plywood. Leaves me with about 1600 lbs of glass to dispose of . The salvage price of the lead will pay for disposal costs of the GRP. The rest of the materials can be sold for a small profit boats in the under 30 ft group can be hauled out on a sailboat trailer for transport to where you want to chop it up so even with minimal overhead you won't make any money for your time IMO. ( I used to run a salvage company. )
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