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Old 16-11-2015, 18:05   #46
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Re: Derelict Boats

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Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599 View Post
I moved into the only marina at Point Roberts, WA, this past summer ... There are about 1000 boats moored here I'm told, the majority being sailboats as determined by the naked eye.
Now, I'm only familiar with the finger dock where my boat is tied up, but on 'my' dock, I see a number of sailboats that obviously have not been used for a very long time. In fact, I would venture to say 'years' ... topsides are covered in grime, canvas work severely deteriorated, bottoms are inches thick with marine growth. One vessel even has an inflatable still tied up alongside, also covered in thick marine growth. Yes, I would call them derelicts.
Makes one wonder why the owners don't dispose of these vessels when they still had some value. I'm sure the inflatable was once worth a couple hundred bucks; but no longer, due to the damage the marine life has inflicted on the fabric.
One presumes that as with a 'Mechanics Lien`the marina has to wait a certain period of time, in order to take action against these owners ... sad!
Yep they have to wait 60 or 90 days after they sieze the ves:-) s:-) els for non payment
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Old 16-11-2015, 19:17   #47
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Re: Derelict Boats

[QUOTE=Sailorbob8599;1964192]
Makes one wonder why the owners don't dispose of these vessels when they still had some value.


I can picture our boat someday being a derelict. I tried selling once and the offers were so low compared to what we have in the boat, the whole effort seemed a waste of time. I'm not sure where the boat would be a derelict, maybe in the jungle somewhere. The locals can turn it into a home.
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Old 16-11-2015, 19:48   #48
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Re: derelict boats

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Nobody wants this crap parked on front of their house, McMansion or not. I see no difference between a derelict boat and a car up on cinder blocks, except the car probably doesn't stink as bad.
How do they get these things to float without attention for so long without sinking? Ive been looking at all kinds of sensors including a system with a cell phone dialer to alert me and others if any water comes in while Im away from the boat. I have a big fear of coming back to the boat and seeing it halfway to the bottom or just a mast sticking up through the water. Looking at this old stinker sitting so high in the water makes my fears seem irrational.

Its kind of like the old guy drinking spirits every day and camping out on the street living longer than the health nut who drops dead after a run at an early age. No sense or reason. Except for the benefits of self pickling.

Perhaps that is whats going on with this filthy floating boat. Its so clogged up with dirt and filth that it has self pickled itself into old age.
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Old 17-11-2015, 00:23   #49
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Re: Derelict Boats

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I can picture our boat someday being a derelict. I tried selling once and the offers were so low compared to what we have in the boat, the whole effort seemed a waste of time.
I think you are on the right track Guy, the types of boat most of us have are no longer in production, with the exception of a few that can be purchased on special order, but at a price that would make one question the sanity of doing so. I'm thinking in particular about a Dana 24 ... still available if you are willing to plunk down $140,000 ... and who in their right mind would do so ... and please accept my apologies anyone out there who may have done this recently.
I think what we are seeing is the end of sailing for the average family unless they are well heeled. As you discovered, it explains why so many owners now walk away from their boat as opposed to selling it.
I know of an area not far from Vancouver, where boats are being moored out and abandoned. These boats are then taken over by homeless people and druggies. The reason being, because they cannot afford to find a home to buy or rent in town ... particularly in the City of Vancouver where a tear-down home can sell for up to 1 or 2 million bucks just for the property alone.
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Old 17-11-2015, 00:35   #50
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Re: derelict boats

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
1. Good idea. How?

2. Not always. In our marina, you have to "pass muster" to get in. Once in, boats do rot away from neglect. And they're not being used to live on. If anything, the anti-liveaboard creed is well & truly here to stay where I live, thanks to the BCDC who maxes liveaboard slips to 10% (this was discussed in the Richardson Bay thread). Seems there are a number of different categories: out at anchor, rotting in marinas... The liveaboards in our marina are usually spiffier than the "never see the owner" boats where I live.
1. That's where anchoring restrictions come in. If the boat has to move to a new anchorage every 7 days or they have to pay for a mooring/dock, the derelicts become impractical. As a result, the last viable owner doesn't sell or give them to the indigent. With no floating community, more aren't drawn in. Yeah, you may get the occasional one but 95% of the problem goes away.

2. If a marina lets them in that's the marina's burden to police. If it's an issue for them, they can always require substantial deposits or vet thier customers better. And probably most important, don't drag thier feet when a customer stops paying. Yank the boat immediately and start the process to get it out before it becomes derelict.
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Old 17-11-2015, 00:35   #51
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Re: derelict boats

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I watched the guy at Green Cove Springs Marina cut up boats for disposal. What a nasty job. He gets boats from the boat yard and from the local waterway clean up.
He ain't gonna get rich doing this. He parts them out but all the parts are often old junk. Lead looks to be the only money maker in the whole operation.
Actually I'm surprised that if it isn't possible to make money on slavaging and disposing of boats. Most have salable items, masts, booms, winches, keels, stoves compasses some electronics etc etc etc.

The trick would be to get a good website up showing everything for sale. Lots of cruisers are out there looking for a bargain.

Not saying you could get rich - but you could probably make a living at it.
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Old 17-11-2015, 00:55   #52
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Re: derelict boats

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Actually I'm surprised that if it isn't possible to make money on slavaging and disposing of boats. Most have salable items, masts, booms, winches, keels, stoves compasses some electronics etc etc etc.

The trick would be to get a good website up showing everything for sale. Lots of cruisers are out there looking for a bargain.

Not saying you could get rich - but you could probably make a living at it.
Lot's hard work.
You need to pay for haul out.
You need to pay rent or buy on a storage space while disassembling (on the expensive waterfront)
If may even a token pretense of meeting environmental rules, cost go up dramatically.
You need to pay for 2-3 dumpsters to get rid of the worthless parts. Fiberglass has no value.

So let's say between saleable parts and scrap metal, you can get $5000 gross out of an old 35' boat, you are looking at maybe $300 for haul out, $500 for storage on the hard, $300 to pull the mast, maybe another $200-300 to get the marina to let you work in the yard as a "professional". $1000 for dumpsters. You are probably going to need a second person to help with a lot of the work, say $1000/boat. Maybe another $200 for tarps, safety gear, misc tools and consumables. I'm betting buisness insurance, liability insurance and health insurance for your worker could easily be another $500.

That leaves you around $1000 for two weeks hard work. Assuming a 50hr workweek, that's about $10/hr but as an independent buisnessman, you are probably looking at $8/hr since you pay both sides of social security and other related expenses.

And this assume that boat is already at the marina. If it's half sunk and you need a boat to drag it out and back to the marina, you could easily double that cost and lose money.

If it was a money maker, every marina would scrap out derelicts in thier spare time.
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Old 17-11-2015, 01:16   #53
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Re: derelict boats

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
That is real tough to do, I for one would not want the job to determine who's boat is pretty enough and whose should be cut up.
Although there are parallels in land living, homes are condemned and torn down in every town across the nation.
I have no idea of the process though


Not too long ago our local derelict vessel disposal program contacted me in my capacity as yard manager. They wanted to set up a regular thing with us for boat disposal, as it is something we had done a fair bit of. The owner of the company determined it was not a profitable venture, even with the state ponying up for it, and told them to pound sand. This is at a yard which won't haul an older wooden vessel without a $10,000.00 deposit, to cover the possibility of abandonment and disposal fees. This is because disposing of most boats around 40' costs about this much. We have to prep for disposal by draining all fuel and oil from tanks and engines, removing all batteries, and otherwise ensuring no toxic waste aboard. This is usually several days work. Then the boat gets loaded on a truck; that's one lift fee for haul out, another for loading, and a truck fee. If it's a sailboat, the rig must be pulled too. Then the truck drives it to a massive landfill, and shoves it off the trailer. Then they drive over the boat with a huge bulldozer a few times. It's sad to watch, but much much easier than the old way of doing it with chain saws and dumpsters. Cheaper, too.
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Old 17-11-2015, 01:19   #54
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Re: derelict boats

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Actually I'm surprised that if it isn't possible to make money on slavaging and disposing of boats. Most have salable items, masts, booms, winches, keels, stoves compasses some electronics etc etc etc.

The trick would be to get a good website up showing everything for sale. Lots of cruisers are out there looking for a bargain.

Not saying you could get rich - but you could probably make a living at it.
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bpd/5308573560.html


https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bpd/5308573114.html



It's out there.
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Old 17-11-2015, 01:22   #55
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Re: derelict boats

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How do they get these things to float without attention for so long without sinking? Ive been looking at all kinds of sensors including a system with a cell phone dialer to alert me and others if any water comes in while Im away from the boat. I have a big fear of coming back to the boat and seeing it halfway to the bottom or just a mast sticking up through the water. Looking at this old stinker sitting so high in the water makes my fears seem irrational.

Its kind of like the old guy drinking spirits every day and camping out on the street living longer than the health nut who drops dead after a run at an early age. No sense or reason. Except for the benefits of self pickling.

Perhaps that is whats going on with this filthy floating boat. Its so clogged up with dirt and filth that it has self pickled itself into old age.


Have definitely seen this happen; ie barnacles the only thing keeping the boat afloat. Once, we hauled a very old derelict wooden vessel, and several planks fell off shortly after she was blocked. Only held on by hydrostatic pressure...
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Old 17-11-2015, 06:04   #56
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Re: derelict boats

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And probably most important, don't drag thier feet when a customer stops paying. Yank the boat immediately and start the process to get it out before it becomes derelict.
A little off topic, but this is key.

I used to own rental property and it was the same story there. The tenant is a little late and when the landlord goes to talk to them they have a really good sob story, so the landlord gives them some more time. Before you know it, it's been three months without rent and now it's going to be another three months of eviction proceedings. Facing that much loss on the property, plus legal fees, the landlord hopes that maybe the tenant will pay up so they give them even more time.

Nope. The solution is--hard as it might seem--as soon as they go past due you begin the eviction proceedings. If the tenant has a sob story, you tell them "Great. No problem. This legal stuff is just a formality that my lawyer makes me do. Pay me within a couple of weeks and we won't have any issue at all." Then if they DON'T pay, the legal process has already begun and you don't find yourself behind the curve.

A little off topic, as I said, but it applies to derelict boats, too. I suspect that a big part of the problem is that the agencies charged with dealing with derelict boats too often wait too long. So that when they finally do get around to dealing with it, the boat barely even has any salvage value. If they stayed on top of it, as the OP points out they seem to be doing in the panhandle, it wouldn't be such an issue.
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Old 17-11-2015, 10:26   #57
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Re: derelict boats

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Actually I'm surprised that if it isn't possible to make money on slavaging and disposing of boats. Most have salable items, masts, booms, winches, keels, stoves compasses some electronics etc etc etc.

The trick would be to get a good website up showing everything for sale. Lots of cruisers are out there looking for a bargain.

Not saying you could get rich - but you could probably make a living at it.
And who do you suppose the end customer for all this salvaged material would be? ... The likes of you and me?

How often do YOU go buy a "used" part? Most of the gear in those stores is junk with few exceptions.

Very few of these used boat gear stores are run well, with items sorted into categories, cleaned and priced

No, I don't believe it's a viable business at all ... why do you think just about ALL the "used boat gear" stores have closed down? ... and then, there is Craigslist!

No, sailing for the "average Joe" is fast coming to an end ... not enough young families taking up the sport due to high costs.

The only people left maintaining a boat will be the well heeled or, those without a mortgage or other high cost items like car payments etc.

As for those of us who own "Good Old Boats", it's only old farts like me who can afford it and that won't be for much longer due to old age.
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Old 17-11-2015, 12:04   #58
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Re: derelict boats

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No, I don't believe it's a viable business at all ... why do you think just about ALL the "used boat gear" stores have closed down?
Here in Florida there are several that have been in business for decades, and seem to be doing quite well.
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Old 17-11-2015, 12:16   #59
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Re: Derelict Boats

If old derelict boats really had any value, ................................ they wouldn't be derelict and abandoned!

It's as simple as that!
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Old 17-11-2015, 12:25   #60
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Re: Derelict Boats

What I find interesting is this Cruising "thing" is relatively recent phenomenon.
Unless I'm mistaken it has only really existed since the early 70's? So in 40 years it has run it's course?

I think it's an indicator that the average working person for whatever reason hasn't the disposable income they once had, that cruising capable boats are no longer or at least less affordable for the average person.
For example how many of us bought older boats because to be truthful, we couldn't afford a new one? I know I couldn't afford new, I admit it.

Maybe the derelicts exist to some extent because the market has sort of dried up?

What is the production rate for new boats compared to the 70's and 80's?
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