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Old 18-03-2015, 07:59   #76
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

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Of course there's more to it. It would take years and many encyclopedic sized volumes to even begin to convey everything that took place in an encounter like that. But your comment implies that the OP's condensed version is not substantially correct (in fact, you guarantee it) which seems like a pretty amazing assertion for someone who not only wasn't there but who doesn't even have conflicting reports from other sources on which to base his doubts. Seems like before essentially calling someone a liar, one might wait for evidence of such.
I've yet to hear a story where the whole world is out to get someone where the real story is anything close to that, so it's not that amazing to assert there is more to the story.

It might be as simple as he took a snotty attitude over the radio and ticked off the authorities or he might have criminal history that drew thier attention. Not a clue what it is but I don't believe for a second the entire world came down on him for no reason other than some rust streaks on the boat.

That also doesn't mean the authorities didn't overstep their bounds and the local yatch club may not have been particularly welcoming but again, there is more to this story.
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Old 18-03-2015, 08:07   #77
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

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Seriously?
More often than you'd think in the good old U.S.
The most of the Sarasota Fl police force was jailed or fired for it.
Google " cop caught planting drugs or evidence" there's over 10 pages of police abuse including murder caught on tape. Then re think your question

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I don't question that it can ever happen or that a google search will yield "over 10 pages of police abuse including murder caught on tape," but if you google, "people struck by lightning" it yields over 4 million(!) results, quite a few more than 10 pages. So yes, we all know it is possible to be struck by lightning, but we don't go through life worrying about it every day.

Sure, just like in every other profession, there are a few bad apples in law enforcement or in any other position of power. Also, due to human nature, it's hard for some to admit they were wrong, so when they set out to find drugs on you or your boat because they "know" you have some, it's tough to admit they were wrong and the temptation is there to succumb to "the ends justify the means" mentality. But what can we do to avoid having that one in a million occurrence happen to us? In the case of lightning strikes, we could all stay in cold climates all the time and certainly never venture out onto the ocean with a big metal pole sticking up towards the sky, or we could just go where we want to go and make sure that big metal pole is well grounded and beyond that not worry about it too much. In the case of corrupt officials planting drugs on our boat or murdering us, besides avoiding traveling alone (so there's always another witness to anything that happens) and avoiding countries known to have police forces where shaking down outsiders to supplement their income is an accepted practice, there's not too much else we can do (except painting over that rusty streak before arriving in port!) so why worry about it? Don't worry, be happy!
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Old 18-03-2015, 08:43   #78
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

I was boarded by the Spanish customs/police during a coastal cruise in the Med. last year. They were polite, friendly and efficient. After a look at the log and sniffing around the boat we continued on our way. Sorry to hear they gave you a bad time, probably the exception rather than a guide to their conduct. However the Israeli police experience does not surprise me, their arrogance and bad manners seem to know no bounds. Israeli waters are just somewhere in the Med. to keep well clear of.
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Old 18-03-2015, 08:46   #79
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pirate Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

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I was boarded by the Spanish customs/police during a coastal cruise in the Med. last year. They were polite, friendly and efficient. After a look at the log and sniffing around the boat we continued on our way. Sorry to hear they gave you a bad time, probably the exception rather than a guide to their conduct. However the Israeli police experience does not surprise me, their arrogance and bad manners seem to know no bounds. Israeli waters are just somewhere in the Med. to keep well clear of.
Even more so from today..
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Old 18-03-2015, 08:48   #80
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

We were boarded a couple miles off the coast of France by one of their customs boats. They fell in line behind us, then sent over an inflatable with about a half dozen armed Douane folks. They never asked us to stop or change course, and were professional and polite during the entire 90 minutes or so that they spent on the vessel. They interviewed all three of us separately and asked all the usual questions regarding contraband. When they searched through our personal effects, they made sure the owner of the items was there to watch the search.

They pretty much turned the boat upside down, it was the most thorough search I've ever seen. I was sad that they made me unwrap a nicely wrapped gift that I had purchased in Bermuda, but other than that, no complaints.

The last thing they did was provide us with forms to show that we had been boarded, inspected, and declared clear. They also explained that if we had any concerns or issues with the search that we should report it, and showed us how to do that as well.

It went about as smoothly and efficiently as those kind of searches can go, and was quite a contrast to another search I experienced in the Dominican Republic where three guys (one in uniform, the other two in casual shorts and tshirts, all unarmed) motored up in a dinghy, recorded our vessel details on a blank sheet of paper, and spent about 10 minutes looking in various drawers and the engine room, then hung out with us in the cockpit chatting over sodas for another 20 minutes about our trip down from Turks & Caicos and what kind of fish we caught.
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Old 18-03-2015, 09:26   #81
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

I would not be surprised to hear that the person who broke in planted the device.

In such a case, I would sue EU authorities over moral, emotional and physical damages.

Before you get arrested, you have full rights to be on your boat, taking pictures and video of what they are doing (except that in SPAIN you can be refused this right as per laws introduced very recently). Actually, in SPAIN one can get arrested for taking pictures of police officers at work.

Bayona was a (...)-hole marina when we were there back in 2003. We were refused to get water on the dock unless we became marina clients. We were also refused a landing place at the marina.

Place a marina where the anchorage used to be, then start charging everybody for everything. And when you economy collapses, get very angry at Angela and tell her it is all her fault! At times, promoting subsidies in place of work brings pretty nasty, if perfectly foreseeable, effects.

Too bad the manager was/is a jerk as I know many Spanish marinas and their staff can be the best people in the world.

Then again you were lucky to be in Spain as I remember continental Portugal as the most unfriendly and policised harbours on our North to South voyage about 10 years ago. I am very glad that "Portuguese hospitality" style does not extend to the Azores, where we are always treated with smile and style and where we are always encouraged to come again. We will.

As for sailing communities, fella sailors, etc... well, you know, the rust. Plastiky fantastiky mortgage ex-charter boats make some so cock sure of their right to deprive others of any rights ... Rest assured what you experienced is prevalent, but not the only, take. There are also sailors who measure other sailors by their sea miles, their smiles and by their reluctance to judge/willingness to help ratio.

Have fun sailing. Avoid nasty spots and nasty people. Fair winds.

b.
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Old 18-03-2015, 09:52   #82
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pirate Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

I honestly do not understand this animosity to the Portuguese..
Yes they can become officious and haughty at the first hint of the 'Brit' and others arrogance on occasion..
Remember back in the mid '90's when I first started down to the Med.. there was a big hullabaloo in Yachting Monthly about the treatment of a Brit and his catamarran in Portimao..
Dire warnings to avoid Portugal because of anti-British sentiment etc..
First he'd tied up to a pontoon then been asked to leave (this was pre-marina's).. he refused so the police were called and he was kicked off the private pontoon up by the bridge.. so he then chose to anchor.. not on the anchorage down stream on the E side of the river with the other boats but in a drying bouyed off marine reserve area across the river.. so's he did not have to dinghy so far..
One thing you do not do in a former dictatorship.. Thumb your nose to Authority.. you'll get the crap beat outa you.. as some friends on holiday in Spain discovered when they tried the ancient Brit sport called 'Knock off the Bobbies Hat n Run'.. after a few bonks on the head, a night in the cells and a fine before they flew home..
Portugal got rid of its Dictator April 25th '72... however many who grew up under the regime still have some of the attitudes.. and the old fears.. as does Spain following Franco.. the generations have to die off for complete change but I do know this.. I find them amogst the friendliest and least conventionally racist people in my travels round the world.. else I would not have lasted here for 8 yrs..
Not with my attitude..
I do know this tho'.. the OP has by his own account been busted a few times in dodgey area's.. WTF does he expect.. this is not the '60's.. info is shared and moves quickly round the world.
If your flagged once.. your flagged for life..
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Old 18-03-2015, 10:53   #83
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

Valhalla, you are missing the point, apart from just being an arse.

My original post was not complaining about the Spanish Guardia at all, it was directed at the British yachties comments while I was being searched and the subsequent order to leave the marina by the (female) manager, quoting rust streaks as part of the reason. There is no way these people could have known what sort of person I was as I had just arrived in the marina from the ocean, under escort.

I have been stopped and searched too many times to even remember them all, its part for long distance sailing.

So being a criminal or whatever doesn't come into it. however your assertation:

"It might be as simple as he took a snotty attitude over the radio and ticked off the authorities or he might have criminal history that drew thier attention. Not a clue what it is but I don't believe for a second the entire world came down on him for no reason other than some rust streaks on the boat."

is offensive, stupid, ignorant and exactly demonstrates what I originally posted about..thank you.
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Old 18-03-2015, 11:35   #84
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

I'm sure that tracker worked well from inside a steel boat.
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Old 18-03-2015, 12:04   #85
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

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Yes well now I have got a beautifully awlgripped (steel) boat, the only slight issue is that I bought it in Terneuzen, Holland, a country best known for smokable drugs however these days I think they just grow it, not smuggle it.

I must say I am amazed at the response to this thread though.

Some Yachties (British) can be very anti social sometimes in their behaviour. Another example, while I have an audience, is:

Under boat arrest in Asseb Eritrea during the war with Ethiopia in '98 under suspician of spying I was called up by a passing British yacht on 16 (as my arrest had made the UK national news) asking me to describe the port there, when I said I didn't think that was a great idea he then proceeded to say that they (the rally) thought I must have been up to something.......I didn't get the rest....It was a scary time for me as it was, they had announced at the time of my arrest that any foreigners caught helping the Ethiopians would get the chop.

What is it with these rally sailors....are they all pig stupid or what..

As a footnote, I had chartered previously to some American Archeologists searching for religious artifacts on the Dalak Desert Islands 250 miles north of there and had had a great time in Masawa and on several trips to Asmara. Its a beautiful country and Christian predominately, not Muslim. The reason I mention the religion is that there are bars selling booze there.....and women without yachmaks/burkas etc, stunning ones in fact.
Are you writing a book? If not I would suggest you should.
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Old 18-03-2015, 12:15   #86
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

Well Im going to be in the clinic till 8 UK time. Coffee is on and I have cake and biscuits (cookies).

Have at it people.
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Old 18-03-2015, 13:02   #87
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

......whilst also remembering that Portugal is 'officially' Britains oldest ally. I must say we always found them very friendly and courteous. Perhaps they received some mis- information or it was a case of mistaken identity. We have only ever been boarded twice, the Israeli incident I have previously mentioned - the other was off the South African coast in 1993. Those guys were exceptionally polite, leaving everything as they found it, and after searching our boat explained that they were looking for smuggled weapons - but I emphasise that they were polite and we were in their waters - by contrast to the Israeli incident where we were not in their territorial water. The South African search was also undertaken without interruption to our passage.
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Old 18-03-2015, 13:05   #88
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

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I honestly do not understand this animosity to the Portuguese..
Yes they can become officious and haughty at the first hint of the 'Brit' and others arrogance on occasion..
Remember back in the mid '90's when I first started down to the Med.. there was a big hullabaloo in Yachting Monthly about the treatment of a Brit and his catamarran in Portimao..
Dire warnings to avoid Portugal because of anti-British sentiment etc..
First he'd tied up to a pontoon then been asked to leave (this was pre-marina's).. he refused so the police were called and he was kicked off the private pontoon up by the bridge.. so he then chose to anchor.. not on the anchorage down stream on the E side of the river with the other boats but in a drying bouyed off marine reserve area across the river.. so's he did not have to dinghy so far..
One thing you do not do in a former dictatorship.. Thumb your nose to Authority.. you'll get the crap beat outa you.. as some friends on holiday in Spain discovered when they tried the ancient Brit sport called 'Knock off the Bobbies Hat n Run'.. after a few bonks on the head, a night in the cells and a fine before they flew home..
Portugal got rid of its Dictator April 25th '72... however many who grew up under the regime still have some of the attitudes.. and the old fears.. as does Spain following Franco.. the generations have to die off for complete change but I do know this.. I find them amogst the friendliest and least conventionally racist people in my travels round the world.. else I would not have lasted here for 8 yrs..
Not with my attitude..
I do know this tho'.. the OP has by his own account been busted a few times in dodgey area's.. WTF does he expect.. this is not the '60's.. info is shared and moves quickly round the world.
If your flagged once.. your flagged for life..
Having modestly contributed to that revolution I can tell you are wrong. It was in 74, not 72

It was 40 years ago and you would find hard to find someone that serve on the Police or navy that comes from those days. As many times when dictatorship falls through a revolution then comes liberty, sometimes too much liberty (great times, funny times too) and the spirit, even the ones from the authorities have changed even if the bureaucracy had taken more time to come to normal levels.

Regarding Portuguese authorities they are friendly and many times helpful. Try to be a smart ass or putting in question their authority and you will find out that there are many ways they can screw you, but I guess you have found that already by now.

Regarding the OP case to put that in perspective it is good to know that Spain and Portugal are two of the main entry points of Drug in Europe and that many come by sea using fishing boats, fast boats and Yachts. Every year several yachts are caught with huge drug shipments and they are caught not because many yachts are searched but by "intelligence" and information regarding the yachts that do that. It seems a bad case of bad information, not very usual since very few yachts are searched without a good cause.

I have been stopped some times but actually never been boarded or searched. Just the RIB alongside for the papers, identity confirmation and a final polite salute wishing us good sailing.

I have been in Bayona with my sailingboat several times, most of the time on anchor but sometimes on the marina too and i have only good things to say about the place or the treatment I got. In fact it is a favorite place, lots of good food, the Albarino wine and nice people.
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Old 18-03-2015, 13:12   #89
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pirate Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

Probably trying to loudly convince the authorities how much they were embarrassed by your type..
Scared $hitl3$$ sympathy.. Aww... might direct attention to their boats...:biggr in:
As for the marina.. they were like that in '96... we were anchored near there and some friends with an 18m Custom Jongurt were berthed in the marina. Anyway they invited us over for supper at 8 for 8.30.. we dinghy'd across at tied up at the outside pontoon.. then the guard appeared and demanded we leave.. so I'm trying to explain.. no language back then and my sign was not working.. and the guys getting more agitated... so .. our friends hear the row and wandered down and explained (had Spanish, not like us ignorant Brits) we were their guests.. no good.. he came up with we go back and they come out and pick us up..
Great.. launch dinghy blah blah.. in the end he settled for me motoring round and tying of at their stern.. great evening on a beautiful boat..
Your not Spanish.. that all..
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Old 18-03-2015, 13:25   #90
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Re: Deplorable behaviour from Marina manager and other yachties

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I do know this tho'.. the OP has by his own account been busted a few times in dodgey area's.. WTF does he expect.. this is not the '60's.. info is shared and moves quickly round the world.
If your flagged once.. your flagged for life..
I think this is the biggest part of his problem. A an airline captain flying internationally, going through various customs and immigration procedures in many countries is just an everyday part of the job. Usually, there's a separate crew line and they pretty much just wave us through, but occasionally, they single someone out and actually check their bags or actually take a hard look at their passport. As the whole crew usually gets to the customs area at once, we usually let the ladies proceed through first and one day I offered that to one of the flight attendants I had just flown with but she insisted on going last. I asked her why and she explained that a few years prior to that she was part of a wedding party in the US and, while on a trip to Europe, volunteered to pick up a several identical items for the whole wedding party to wear. I can't remember exactly what they were but they cost enough so they exceeded the individual allowance accorded to aircrews so she only declared a couple of them on her form. That was her unlucky day because she got singled out for a random screening and when they found her bags fairly bursting with these items, they fined her, and now, forever, every time she goes through US customs, she gets singled out for a full search. That's why she insisted on going last, so she wouldn't cause everyone else on the crew to have to wait. No doubt quite frustrating, but she also understood that she brought it on herself.

Possibly the OP is in a similar situation as this flight attendant. Once you have a flag by your name in a computer, it never goes away.
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