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Old 16-05-2015, 14:27   #16
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pirate Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
Hell boatman you should have given him my name as a second, that would have really impressed him, NOT. Sorry you got the bum's rush on the run. Anyway I'm too busy getting my boat ready for sea right now, since I retired from the regular boat business, I have been busier than before, working on my own crap. I don't know how I had time for a regular job.
Seeing as I suggested he go elsewhere.. no 'Bums Rush' mate..
Good luck with the boat and hope your on the high sea's again soon..
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Old 16-05-2015, 14:41   #17
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

So, some potential customer who doesn't know you or your cohort from Adam, wants to know if the two of you are familiar with a variation of rigging that, usually, is only found on racing boats, partly because folks can break the rigging if they aren't familiar with it.


And you practically tell him to sod off because he asked a simple and fairly important question?


Dunno, it sounds like he's lucky you did. Doesn't sound like his question was unreasonable at all, considering the stakes. Unless of course, you carry enough insurance to buy two new boats for him if you break 'em en route.
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Old 16-05-2015, 14:50   #18
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pirate Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
So, some potential customer who doesn't know you or your cohort from Adam, wants to know if the two of you are familiar with a variation of rigging that, usually, is only found on racing boats, partly because folks can break the rigging if they aren't familiar with it.


And you practically tell him to sod off because he asked a simple and fairly important question?


Dunno, it sounds like he's lucky you did. Doesn't sound like his question was unreasonable at all, considering the stakes. Unless of course, you carry enough insurance to buy two new boats for him if you break 'em en route.
Sorry if your offended dude..
But this side of the Pond we've been using running backstays for a few hundred years..
And I was using them before he was born..
Maybe he was lucky.. who knows whats out there.. but I do know I don't need 12 crew to sail a bugger..
And.. its a freakin delivery not a win or bust race...
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Old 16-05-2015, 15:44   #19
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

boatman-
You STILL MISS THE POINT.


"But this side of the Pond we've been using running backstays for a few hundred years.."
Yes, but over 90% of sailors on over 90% of boats have never met one. They've been used, in living memory, only on racing boats. Not working boats, not museum boats, not recreational craft in the mass market.
" And I was using them before he was born.. "
Yes, and as I said perhaps too gently before, who the hell are you, who the hell is your second skipper, who the hell are your crew, and why the hell should some potential customer have any CERTAINTY of what you and your cohorts may or may not have experience with?
I give my car to a valet, and I have no idea if they've ever met a manual shift and clutch. Or if they have idea any what mine might be like. The old big-block Mustangs used to have a warning light and buzzer on the dashboard, because everyone knew how to drive stick shift, sure. But with a 429 CobraJet engine, if you mistook fifth and reverse (both in the same place, depending on the transmission style) you could and would break your wrist as your car hit highway speed in reverse. So, "You ever drive one of these before?" wasn't at all unreasonable.
So...from what you say? All he did was ask an innocent, financially responsible, and reasonable question, to make sure of who he was dealing with.
And boy, did you do him a favor with your reply. Totally unmerited, unless you've left a few things out of the picture. I'm not offended, I'm happy for you both. Especially for him.
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Old 16-05-2015, 15:58   #20
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

HelloSailor.

Relax.

You're second guessing without all the other available facts. YOU weren't there on the phone. YOU didnt get the subtext of what the rest of the conversation was about or all the other inuenndos or conversation points.

I believe Boaty is just bringing up a point or two out of the frustrations.

Even boaty said arrogant ******* vs arrogant ******* isn't a good marriage.
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Old 16-05-2015, 16:10   #21
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

I see something of a difference of opinion here. On the one hand, running backstays are still common on cutter rigged boats. A Brewer 42 just sold at my marina with running backstays.

On the other hand I can also understand having my skills/ability called into question that far into the negotiations.

A good business deal requires both parties to be satisfied. Since neither party appeared to be happy, IMHO it was a good thing the deal fell through. I can't see anyone being happy in the end under any circumstances.

Just my 1.5 cents worth (2 cents doesn't go very far now)

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Old 16-05-2015, 16:20   #22
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
boatman-
You STILL MISS THE POINT.


"But this side of the Pond we've been using running backstays for a few hundred years.."
Yes, but over 90% of sailors on over 90% of boats have never met one. They've been used, in living memory, only on racing boats. Not working boats, not museum boats, not recreational craft in the mass market.
" And I was using them before he was born.. "
Yes, and as I said perhaps too gently before, who the hell are you, who the hell is your second skipper, who the hell are your crew, and why the hell should some potential customer have any CERTAINTY of what you and your cohorts may or may not have experience with?
I give my car to a valet, and I have no idea if they've ever met a manual shift and clutch. Or if they have idea any what mine might be like. The old big-block Mustangs used to have a warning light and buzzer on the dashboard, because everyone knew how to drive stick shift, sure. But with a 429 CobraJet engine, if you mistook fifth and reverse (both in the same place, depending on the transmission style) you could and would break your wrist as your car hit highway speed in reverse. So, "You ever drive one of these before?" wasn't at all unreasonable.
So...from what you say? All he did was ask an innocent, financially responsible, and reasonable question, to make sure of who he was dealing with.
And boy, did you do him a favor with your reply. Totally unmerited, unless you've left a few things out of the picture. I'm not offended, I'm happy for you both. Especially for him.

Love the running backstays on our sailboat.....

gunk
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Old 16-05-2015, 16:22   #23
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

Salty-
You're right, I wasn't on the phone. But since no other information was presented, obviously there was no other relevant information. Or perhaps, some reasonable person decided to, uh, ooops, not mention it?


Cabo-
"On the one hand, running backstays are still common on cutter rigged boats. A Brewer 42..."
I think the number is that 90% of all recreational sailboats are 24' or shorter. Maybe 28', I'm not good with numbers. Either way, that just confirms that the Brewer 42 you mention would be totally alien to 90% of the market.
That's all I'm getting at. The question, as put forward to us, is an entirely reasonable one. The reaction? Not at all rational, in the given context. Of course that's OK too...where would the world of opera be, without divas?
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Old 16-05-2015, 16:50   #24
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

Hellosailor

I can understand where you're coming from but I believe a bit of misunderstanding is involved. It is not the size of the boat that dictates running backstays but the manner in which the boat is rigged.

I agree with you that many of today's sailors are unfamiliar with running backstays simply because many are sailing sloop rigged boats. For anyone sailing a cutter rigged boat, the term is very familiar.

My boat is cutter rigged and I don't have running backstays but permanently rigged backstays. I am certainly well aware of them. Truth is there are far more sloop rigged boats than any other. I would think, I may be wrong, that if you looked on the net for cutter rigged boats of any size you will find many with running backstays to support the load of the staysail.

Fair winds
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Old 16-05-2015, 16:57   #25
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

I didn't realise running backstays were that uncommon. They're popular with traditionally rigged sailboats. I've kind of happened across them from time to time, sailed with them a decent amount and I'm by no means a racer. As far as I'm concerned, motorcycles and 4x4's are for racing.

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Old 16-05-2015, 17:00   #26
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

looks like he is not even the owner phil,just another wannabee


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Old 16-05-2015, 17:14   #27
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Forgot to say.. when he responded to my quote it was with a 'Google Search my name so you know who your talking to...'
If my web site is not sufficient information for him to judge whether I'm a viable Skipper for the job.. why bother.. or is it good for his ego to try and put folk down..
I've seen him on Discovery channel in their documentary about the Velux 5 Oceans race. Interesting program to watch.
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Old 16-05-2015, 17:21   #28
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

... at least not (one of) the boat(s) he was asking to deliver (at least when you are talking about Spirit of Adventure because it is in the Caribbean to the time being).

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Old 16-05-2015, 17:33   #29
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

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... at least not (one of) the boat(s) he was asking to deliver (at least when you are talking about Spirit of Adventure because it is in the Caribbean to the time being).

Carsten
the company must have found 2 old clapped out open 60's in LA and cant afford to ship them
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Old 16-05-2015, 17:34   #30
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Re: Delivery Knockbacks...

Rich-
I suppose we'd have to run a poll and then adjust it for the non-standard audience we have here.(G) I remember racing on one boat with running backstays, but that wasn't my job. Other than that one boat, I don't remember any OPBs that had them. Almost all sloop, ketch, or yawl rigged, no cutters among them, come to think of it. So, maybe I've just been sailing on the wrong boats.
Anyone who has to move two 60'ers long distance...If they ARE the owner, I wouldn't be surprised to find there was a crew chief or logistics person who took care of those things, on their payroll. If I could afford to own two of those? I know my time would be too valuable to waste on the phone, looking for hired help. I might make the final interview or sign the contract, but if I had reliable staff? Hell no, that's what you pay the staff to do.
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