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Old 05-12-2007, 15:07   #16
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OK, let's look at it from another perspective...

Of the members here how many hold a ticket? Either YM or USCG?

That leaves a lot of people unqualified to move their boats?
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Old 05-12-2007, 15:19   #17
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Here is a real number...

$4.00 US per mile plus expenses (travel, wait time if bad weather for longer deliveries, etc.)

Before we retired we got stuck in Monterey CA and needed the boat brought back to SF Bay - about 100 miles ---> $400 - this was in 2003.

I needed to go off on a business trip and the journey back "up hill" had to wait for the weather to clear while I was gone.

That seemed to be the going price at the time for "quality" professional delivery folks.

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Old 05-12-2007, 19:50   #18
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I wouldn't let anybody move my boat period......problem is.....**** happens and if someone hasn't had the experience to handle ANYTHING that could happen (things you can't even emagine) I don't want him/her moving my boat. As far as I'm concerned. I would never subject another person to that resposibility (under any circumstances).

The mere fact that the owner of a vessel wants to hire someone to move the vessel that short distance tells me a lot.......I'll say no more.
Come freaking on.....Piloting a boat is a cakewalk. Im only 27 and have piloted and navigated vessels ranging from 24 feet to 378 feet. There is nothing hard about emergency repairs or anything that is "boat" unless you loose your head or stop paying attention. I have absolutely no problem with any experienced person piloting my boat in safe waters, such as the ICW. You can tell if someone knows their head from their arse.
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Old 05-12-2007, 19:58   #19
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Come freaking on.....Piloting a boat is a cakewalk. Im only 27 and have piloted and navigated vessels ranging from 24 feet to 378 feet. There is nothing hard about emergency repairs or anything that is "boat" unless you loose your head or stop paying attention. I have absolutely no problem with any experienced person piloting my boat in safe waters, such as the ICW. You can tell if someone knows their head from their arse.
You'll change your tune by the time you are 57 and seen what I have seen some "skippers" do. You just simply haven't been around long enough.

Also, I've had people ask me to take boats down the ditch that I have taken one look at the boat and said, "No way". One guy just bought a 45' trawler for $400K. It was supposed to be "Pristene".....the vessels hydraulic steering was all screwed up. I refused the delivery. The guy that took the delivery lost steering 25 miles up and landed the boat on the rocks. He tried steering with the engines and one engine failed (the tanks were full of algae. I told the owner that.
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Old 05-12-2007, 20:23   #20
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I've delivered a lot of boats and sailed with a lot of USCG licensed captains. Most, (not all of course) I wouldn't let sail a toy boat in a bathtub. Hell, anyone with a little money and a weeks time can "buy" a USCG ticket. (Hey! I'm a professional! I have a piece of paper!!)
A six pack..perhaps, but even that requires a year of sea time. But not any ticket. BTW, are you up on your celestial nav and you're Morse Code? Do you have your radar endorsement or towing endorsement? Do you have a Z-Card? Do you get random drug tested? Do you ever go through background checks? Do you understand stability and trim? Have you ever taken any classes in physics, chemistry, electronics, calculus or naval architecture as it relates to vessels? Have you ever taken a Admiralty Law class or even a Maritime History class? Are you up on ARPA and ECDIS? Have you ever spent any time in a bridge simulator? Did you spend a week at the Naval firefighting school? Did you spend 4 years in college learning how to do all of this?

I would like to see you stand watch as Mate on a 900 ft container ship to see if you knew what the hell you were doing.

Hey, I was just wondering how qualified you are since you question the abilities of those who do have licenses. I have a license, and I do know what the hell I am doing and probably much more so than you do.

It gets real irritating hearing people say that licenses don't mean anything.
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Old 05-12-2007, 21:30   #21
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The guy that took the delivery lost steering 25 miles up and landed the boat on the rocks. He tried steering with the engines and one engine failed (the tanks were full of algae. I told the owner that.
Do you have the vessel name and date? I'd like to look that one up. Even I am smart enough to throw out an anchor and call for assistance.

I think we are mixing apples and oranges. The OP example is an 8 hour motor to reposition a boat. I do 16+ hours every weekend. 8 hours is a dail sail for me.

We are in the Monsoon Cup / Kings Cup season and lot's of boats are being reposition - several days sail.

I was not surprised to hear that on 90% of these boats they are not sailed but motored. No one wants their race sails flogged for any sort of reposition.

Most of these are being handled by "unqualified crew" at almost free rates. If that worries people's sensibilites, it's unfortunate, but it is reality.

I certainly wouldn't recommend giving your boat keys to someone you don't know, or met on the internet, even if they are a professional. At a minimum they would have to have a strong recommendation from someone I trust.

Now cross ocean "deliveries" I can see using professional crew and paying professional rates. But even this has limits. On popular redestinations (Europe-Med & East Coast-Islands) shipping the boat is becoming a viable option and often can work out cheaper than a delivery crew when wear and tear and even damage to the boat is considered.
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Old 06-12-2007, 00:02   #22
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US$1000 for a day sail/motor, where do I sign up? That's huge.

Ticket wise - I'd rather have someone with no tickets but many many miles under their belt than many with tickets I've seen, dealt with and been on boats with.

There are many with tickets that are pure frightening, just as there is also many frightening without. There are many with tickets that are damn good, just as there is many just as good without tickets.

I've taken many and still do the odd few boats all over. Can't remember the last time anyone asked if I had any tickets, which I have a few of. Can't remember the last time anyone didn't ask "what experience have you had?"

It's all about the person not the paperwork. Schooling is good but actual on the job experience is far superior. Tickets are good to have but I found them pretty damn easy to get to be honest.

Who said Morse code? I remember having to do Morse blocks on a few occasions, they are evil and one part of school I didn't enjoy
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Old 06-12-2007, 00:32   #23
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We should rename this thread to "what makes a good skipper?" :-)

I'm planning on getting my six pack simply for my own knowledge and to build confidence. I don't plan on "using" it anytime soon, but I can't imagine that it will be unhelpful to have around as I spend more time on the water. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing deliveries yet, but I also (hopefully) won't be one of those annoying people who changes his name from Eric to Captain Eric because I passed a test, have spent some time underway, and can piss clean.

I saw a navy commander, probably with more sea time than anyone in this thread, put a fast attack submarine up on a mud bank in the thames river in 1997. Stuff happens, and the guy was obviously more than qualified and has tons of experience.

Experience and training help to minimize those, which is why they're both important to me. I try to get more of both myself, and would only trust another sailor with my vessel who also did things the same way. To me, I don't see how a "professional sailor", like any other professional in a trade (diesel mechanic, doctor, lawyer, software developer, etc), wouldn't take it upon themselves to build up their resume a bit with some official certifications.

Certainly if you're that good of a sailor acing the six pack should be easy for you, right? :-)
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:20   #24
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To me, I don't see how a "professional sailor", like any other professional in a trade (diesel mechanic, doctor, lawyer, software developer, etc), wouldn't take it upon themselves to build up their resume a bit with some official certifications.
Bingo - If you are going to make this thing your profession, get the licenses to prove you can pass a test.

However, I think most of us are agreeing that the license doesn't prove seamanship and the lack of license doesn't disprove seamanship.

So what's the license for? Because in certain operations the CFRs require it.

I can't help drawing a comparison to aviation. Private pilot, commercial pilot & ATP all have different requirements. And when you reach a certain classs of airplane you have to have type ratings. So you could see an ATP with a 737-400 type rating that would not be allowed to skipper a 747 for example. To maintain the type rating you have to have recurrent training.

The whole boating thing is very loosey-goosey compared to where I am coming from.
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:08   #25
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Wow, what a response!
I was just trying to figure out how much to charge the guy! I've got my 100ton, sailed my own 38 thousands of miles, and I'm a captain for Tow Boat US but I don't consider myself a "delivery skipper" (I reckon because I've never "delivered" a vessel before!). Anyways I was thinking of shooting for $350 depending on the return transportation method and based on your input that sounds about right to me.
Thanks for the input!
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:26   #26
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Just a note (read opinion)...
All this talk about qualified skippers and USGG licenses... Having your 6-pack, masters, whatever has nothing to do with being a qualified skipper. Alot of the test just involved memorizing a bunch of useless crap. The coures has nothing to do with common sense which is what good seamanship is based on. Sure you need to know the rules of the road, how to plot a coures, all that. But that's all grade school stuff that you should know before ever handling ANY boat. I fully feel that after I walked out with a 100 ton master's license with a towing endorsement that I was no better qualified than before. So be warned, never assume someone is more qualified because of that piece of paper.

And no, I don't refer to myself as Captain... I think is sounds pretty cheesy!
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:43   #27
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Just a note (read opinion)...
All this talk about qualified skippers and USGG licenses... Having your 6-pack, masters, whatever has nothing to do with being a qualified skipper. Alot of the test just involved memorizing a bunch of useless crap. The coures has nothing to do with common sense which is what good seamanship is based on. Sure you need to know the rules of the road, how to plot a coures, all that. But that's all grade school stuff that you should know before ever handling ANY boat. I fully feel that after I walked out with a 100 ton master's license with a towing endorsement that I was no better qualified than before. So be warned, never assume someone is more qualified because of that piece of paper.

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And no, I don't refer to myself as Captain... I think is sounds pretty cheesy!
How large must the vessel be before someone can be called "Captain"?

Certainly ships have captains. Do tugs have captains? Do mega-yachts have captains? Do 100 ft yachts have captains?

And no, I don't refer to myself as Captain... I think is sounds pretty cheesy!
It takes all three elements:
1. Experience

2. Common sense

3. A knowledge of "a bunch of useless crap" ..like basic navigation skills.

A license is not intended to prove competence. It is intended to prove that someone has a basic knowledge of the level that the license is issued and has had a year of sea time, which is supposed to prove at least some practical experience.

A license also shows that the person holding the license is not a convicted felon and probably not a drug addict. This in my opinion is a good thing.
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:54   #28
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Just a note (read opinion)...
All this talk about qualified skippers and USGG licenses... Having your 6-pack, masters, whatever has nothing to do with being a qualified skipper. Alot of the test just involved memorizing a bunch of useless crap. The coures has nothing to do with common sense which is what good seamanship is based on. Sure you need to know the rules of the road, how to plot a coures, all that. But that's all grade school stuff that you should know before ever handling ANY boat. I fully feel that after I walked out with a 100 ton master's license with a towing endorsement that I was no better qualified than before. So be warned, never assume someone is more qualified because of that piece of paper.

And no, I don't refer to myself as Captain... I think is sounds pretty cheesy!
like I said.......
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Old 06-12-2007, 09:58   #29
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You'll change your tune by the time you are 57 and seen what I have seen some "skippers" do. You just simply haven't been around long enough.
Oh, I dont know about that Kanani, I was the guy that bagged up the mistakes in the USCG. Bodies, quite a few up in Alaska, one in Seatle and one in Norfolk, VA. The Norfolk guy had most of his head cut off from a prop and was lashed to his overturned boat by his wife. Hit a submerged pile (marked of course). One up in Alaska (we didnt find out what his story was) was probably in the water for three weeks and had skin like mayo. None were sailboaters, all powerboaters (they have the highest likelihood of being an idiot).
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Old 06-12-2007, 10:04   #30
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double post..sorry
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