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POH · 21-05-2012, 20:16

Do you think these guys capture it?

https://vimeo.com/15351476

(Be prepared to lose an hour of your day)

TomM · 27-05-2012, 19:10

Great video. I like their style.

virginia boy · 27-05-2012, 21:18

I just watched the whole thing. It's a "real" adventure with some very likable kids, and I'll be damned if it's not one of the best videos I've seen yet.

Great Job!

**skipmac** · 28-05-2012, 05:43

Am I the only one that has a problem with them breaking into the boat next to them to use the head and galley and also using that boat's dinghy davit without permission (possibly damaging the davit) to step their mast?

If that had been my boat I would have been pretty PO'd. Depending on the situation would have considered calling the cops.

virginia boy · 28-05-2012, 11:49

Yeah, I have a problem with it too and don't condone what they did. I'm trying to look at it in context, so while it was certainly illegal and disrespectful of private property, I put them in the same class as squatters.

They arrived in true hobo fashion riding in a boxcar. there was no place for the three of them to live other than a 30-foot boat that was undergoing a major refit so I'm willing to overlook it as youthful indiscretion.

**skipmac** · 30-05-2012, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by virginia boy

Yeah, I have a problem with it too and don't condone what they did. I'm trying to look at it in context, so while it was certainly illegal and disrespectful of private property, I put them in the same class as squatters.

They arrived in true hobo fashion riding in a boxcar. there was no place for the three of them to live other than a 30-foot boat that was undergoing a major refit so I'm willing to overlook it as youthful indiscretion.

But would you still think it a youthful indiscretion if they were breaking into your boat?

Asked by one who committed a couple of youthful indiscretions.

tager · 30-05-2012, 18:06

Property is theft. If you have a nice boat, it's unethical to neglect it, and keep it locked while people live in squalorous conditions only meters away. This philosophy may not be popular with you, but it is popular with some. Ethics are subjective.

POH · 30-05-2012, 18:20

My anarchist tendencies disappeared when I was in high school (which these kids look like they just left), so I agree that they're attitude towards property etc. may be somewhat debatable ....

but I didn't get the impression they 'broke' into the yacht, my recollection from watching it was that the broker gave them permission to try and step the mast with the dinghy davit. The cautionary tale here is more about appointing an agent to look after your boat - assuming the broker was the agent for that boat, he could give them permission to use it.

Whether he should have (do you want your broker letting kids try to step a mast off your dinghy davit?) ... well, I think there are plenty of 'bad broker' threads out there.

Anyway - point of the thread was more to have some fun watching kids enjoy sailing with basically $0 to their names.

**skipmac** · 30-05-2012, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by tager

Property is theft.

Not sure exactly what you mean. Care to clarify. Are you saying that owning or possessing something is theft? From whom?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tager

If you have a nice boat, it's unethical to neglect it, and keep it locked while people live in squalorous conditions only meters away.

Well first of all, the boat was not neglected. It appeared to be well maintained and the owner had taken the trouble to hire a caretaker. Hardly neglected.

Regarding the living conditions of the people only meters away, it was by their own choice that they were living where and how they were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tager

This philosophy may not be popular with you, but it is popular with some.

You are quite correct. Not popular with me at all and in my opinion and those who follow that philosophy are generally considered thieves. Perhaps not by "some" but by anyone I know and by the laws of every country I can think of except perhaps Somalia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tager

Ethics are subjective.

Perhaps yours are. Mine are not.

**skipmac** · 30-05-2012, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by POH

My anarchist tendencies disappeared when I was in high school (which these kids look like they just left), so I agree that they're attitude towards property etc. may be somewhat debatable ....

but I didn't get the impression they 'broke' into the yacht, my recollection from watching it was that the broker gave them permission to try and step the mast with the dinghy davit. The cautionary tale here is more about appointing an agent to look after your boat - assuming the broker was the agent for that boat, he could give them permission to use it.

Whether he should have (do you want your broker letting kids try to step a mast off your dinghy davit?) ... well, I think there are plenty of 'bad broker' threads out there.

Anyway - point of the thread was more to have some fun watching kids enjoy sailing with basically $0 to their names.

I listened to the video again. As the story was related the broker suggested the owner of the yacht was out of town and they could probably get away with using the dinghy davits while he was gone. Doesn't sound like the broker had the authority to let them use the boat at all. Then they say that they discovered the yacht wasn't locked so decided to use the boat's galley and head. No mention at all of permission from the broker in this.

Did you also catch their reference to "late night, stealth, scavenging missions"? Sounds like a euphemism for sneaking out to steal stuff.

Sorry but I just can't have fun watching a video about a group of thieves. It is certainly a lot easier to sail with basically $0 to your name when you don't mind "appropriating" other people's property.

I have to ask again. How "interesting" would it be to you if you showed up at your boat to find some "anarchists" squatting in your home?

POH · 30-05-2012, 20:07

Yep - theft is wrong, wouldn't want it to be my boat, etc. etc.

(Is this really turning into a debate about property rights rather than enjoyment of a pretty cool video?)

When I watched the vid, it sounded to me like they had permission to use the davits from the broker who suggested it, and I'm guessing if they got 'caught' on that boat they'd get off in a court of law if the broker had given them permission to use the boat (which would be implied from him saying "yeah, there's a boat over there with davits you can use") & he had authority over that vessel as an agent for the owners (i.e. which would be implied from him showing the boat to others).

Regardless, not defending them or their actions, it was a pretty cool movie about sailing. I like action movies, doesn't mean I agree with shooting people.

Sorry you couldn't enjoy the video for what it is.

sailpower · 30-05-2012, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipmac

Not sure exactly what you mean. Care to clarify. Are you saying that owning or possessing something is theft? From whom?

Well first of all, the boat was not neglected. It appeared to be well maintained and the owner had taken the trouble to hire a caretaker. Hardly neglected.

Regarding the living conditions of the people only meters away, it was by their own choice that they were living where and how they were.

You are quite correct. Not popular with me at all and in my opinion and those who follow that philosophy are generally considered thieves. Perhaps not by "some" but by anyone I know and by the laws of every country I can think of except perhaps Somalia.

Perhaps yours are. Mine are not.

Pretty sure that post was "tongue and cheek".

VirtualVagabond · 30-05-2012, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by tager

Property is theft. If you have a nice boat, it's unethical to neglect it, and keep it locked while people live in squalorous conditions only meters away. This philosophy may not be popular with you, but it is popular with some. Ethics are subjective.

It's not a philosophy, it's an attention grabbing effort to try and be a radical, revolutionary thinker. Every generation does it to some extent, and it's pathetic.

If they've got a brain and any go at all, it lasts until they realize they have to get their arses into gear and earn a few bucks if they want anything in life.
Then they buy something of value to them with their hard earned bucks and feel the satisfaction of the rewards for their effort.

Then some goddam loser decides to steal it, or just trash it, and miraculously they realize property isn't theft. It's reward for effort.
And the people living in squalour have nothing to do with it.

Until that maturity kicks in, they're just whining little dickheads who think the world owes them a living.

Most people who have anything going for them wise up before they've turned 20!!!!!