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Old 08-11-2018, 22:27   #256
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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Originally Posted by Beau.Vrolyk View Post
I think that it's ok to be grumpy about folks over-generalizing. Basically, I don't think a bunch of 60-year-olds should be pontificating about all the things that are wrong with "millennials". They should, at he very least, tell us how they know these problems exist.
Yeah, it's kind of bad form.
Guilty.
Upthread, I did describe my experience with the 4 teenage millenials (one of them my son) who gave up their collective dream of cruising around in a truck that needed fixing up, for the joy of Xbox sessions... in spite of my offers of a free truck, free tools, and free guidance.

In fairness, my experience should not have been extrapolated to a generalized statement of all such people of a certain generation. The rite of passage that I remembered as a teenager in the 70s/80s was to fix up an old vehicle and cruise around with my friends in the hope of impressing the local girls. The 4 modern lads that I described had voiced similar goals, which is when I jumped in... offering everything they needed. In the end, the Xbox was more important than those goals.

I was left with an old truck that I fixed and sold.
Solo.
I do think everyone has the right to define his/her own priorities.
In the end, Halo was better than the hope of meeting girls, in this single case.
I cannot identify with that.
Call me old.
Grumpy?
Nah.
Laughing.
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Old 09-11-2018, 05:44   #257
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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In the end, the Xbox was more important than those goals.

I was left with an old truck that I fixed and sold.
Solo.
I do think everyone has the right to define his/her own priorities.
In the end, Halo was better than the hope of meeting girls, in this single case.
I cannot identify with that.
Except, you're forgetting one thing.

Millennials are half female too. Not just all guys like your son and his friends.

Where did you do to meet your ladies back in the old days? I'm picturing some main street with cars or the mall or some physical location. You had to go where the girls are hanging out, right? You brought your fancy car and impressed them. You operated within your own culture at the time and went where your peers were.

You didn't go to the local leather tannery or horse hitching post, did you? There were no girls there.

Well guess what? If you want to meet a millennial female you go where they are. They are on Instagram. They are on Snapchat. They are at music festivals. They are playing Halo, to some degree. So your boys are doing the right thing for them.

If your dad gave you a horse and showed you for free how to shoe it and brush it and ride it to the mall or main street or the local barn dance like where he met your mom, , would you have done it? No.

You'd have built the car and went to the mall or something because that's what you did to be cool and noticed in your generation.

To be cool and noticed in their generation, your Insta better be on point! That means taking good selfies and making your feed look awesome. Those skills, combined with real life skills with the ladies are what gets you the girls these days.
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:12   #258
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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I'm curious, Polux: do you think these boats now littering your anchorages are privately owned or charter boats? Here in Oz, the only crowded anchorages that are not near big population centers are where there are big charter fleets.

Jim
It depends on the places. On Croatia and on Ionian Greece there are a huge number of charter boats, almost everywhere. On the Aegean, specially on the central and North Aegean they are not in so big numbers and there are lots of privately owned boats. On this case I think the more demanding sailing conditions are a blessing for more experienced sailors and is responsible for a lesser number of charter boats.

Anyway I had said already that it seems to exist a strong tendency to charter before retirement and only to buy a boat after retirement (and I would say that makes sense) but in what regards sailing and cruising charter counts as much as privately owned boats: in what regards the industry boats are sold, (for charter or private use) and in what regards cruising people are on the water.

Due to my blog sailors ask me for advice regarding new boats and I am currently advising three sailors and more that I really don't know well and have been asking for advice. The number of people asking for advice is increasing, it may be the blog that is more popular, but I think more people are actually buying boats.

An interesting new tendency is the appearance on the charter market of boats that are not typical charter boats: this year I have seen several Pogos doing charter work and there are several companies exploring that niche market of fast and very good sailing boats that comes a bit as the opposing tendency of condo cats and main market boats that are used by many charters as motor boats. There are even two charter companies that started making their own boats. Kind of refreshing.
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:35   #259
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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Except, you're forgetting one thing.

Millennials are half female too. Not just all guys like your son and his friends.
...
If you want to meet a millennial female you go where they are. They are on Instagram. They are on Snapchat. They are at music festivals. They are playing Halo, to some degree. So your boys are doing the right thing for them.
“Music festivals”
Yes, exactly. And the beach. Then whaddya do AFTER boy meets girl, borrow mommy’s car to go on a date?? A vehicle is still part of the modern equation, (unlike a horse) and these 4 boys simply failed.
Oh, and 2 of them even went to the Coachella music festival a while back... with girls... on the BUS. $75 each. Must have been more romantic than driving your own truck there.
“Hey beautiful, wanna ride the bus with me to the desert?”
Fail.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:36   #260
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

The private automobile will very soon be seen as an anachronism, except in poor rural areas.

Maybe one out of six kids get a DL at 16 anymore, way under half of what it was in the 80's.

Even 20-25 y.o. it's down by 20%.

Cigarettes used to be an important part of the culture, as was owning the right kind of sword.

And kids can hook up pretty much wherever they like now, what you think parents are getting all "moralistic" about it?

Anyone doesn't put their kids on birth control at puberty is just irresponsible IMO.
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Old 16-11-2018, 11:14   #261
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

Female Gen-Xer here, a double-minority in the sailing community.

I don't have any answers to this question. My friends are interested in sailing, always ask about the boat, but they never actually want to *go* sailing. So I'd say it's even deeper than cost/learning curve/time - I can't even get a bunch of relatively well-off professionals to join me for a sail. They are afraid of the water, or of getting sea-sick, or get nervous about the boat heeling. One friend I did get out said it was scarier than she thought it would be - this was while standing on the finger pier being shown how to step on the boat and swing over the lifelines. (I put in a gate after that trip.)

So maybe my generation just doesn't have a taste for sailing? It does seem weird that they are watching tiny home shows and moving into Airstreams when you can buy a gorgeous boat for $50,000 and live on the water here. Sailboats are even very Instagram friendly! So yeah, I don't get it either. Maybe sailors are just weird.
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Old 16-11-2018, 11:23   #262
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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. My friends are interested in sailing, always ask about the boat, but they never actually want to *go* sailing.
That's not a generational thing. People always say they "want to come sailing", but mostly have some reasons to not come when the time comes.

I would say cruising is the same thing. People get into boating to go cruising, but most find reasons not to. Which is why cruising boats are dying (not the same as the total number of cruisers declining, which they aren't).
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Old 16-11-2018, 12:26   #263
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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Sailboats are even very Instagram friendly! So yeah, I don't get it either. Maybe sailors are just weird.
Human beings are weird and that's one of the nicest thing about us!

Sailboats don't have good internet, though. At least the offshore versions. Life isn't living without notifications.
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Old 16-11-2018, 16:18   #264
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

According to a thesis on cruisers I read recently, we are *weird*.

It's a particular form of 'affirmative deviancy' according to the author.

So deviate away, folks...!!

But it does help to explain why so many friends and colleagues - even of millenials - don't 'get' sailing, never mind cruising.

Apparently, you need to be a 'deviant personality type' *first*..!!
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Old 16-11-2018, 17:22   #265
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

Well, our sport/hobby is quite complicated and challenging in multiple aspects, so we need to be a little eccentric to sail and cruise with all the time and expenses involved, not to mention all the other things.

There are a lot of young people entering the sailing world, but maybe blue water cruising is more challenging with limited times off and the increased costs of living (a lot has been discussed here as well). At the same time, commercial flights and cruises became way more affordable so “go sailing and see the world” may not be that attractive anymore - even to the older sailors among us.

Kids love racing and quick day sailing. - we should look for ways to bring more kids into it.


QUOTE=ChesapeakeScout;2762852]Female Gen-Xer here, a double-minority in the sailing community.

I don't have any answers to this question. My friends are interested in sailing, always ask about the boat, but they never actually want to *go* sailing. So I'd say it's even deeper than cost/learning curve/time - I can't even get a bunch of relatively well-off professionals to join me for a sail. They are afraid of the water, or of getting sea-sick, or get nervous about the boat heeling. One friend I did get out said it was scarier than she thought it would be - this was while standing on the finger pier being shown how to step on the boat and swing over the lifelines. (I put in a gate after that trip.)

So maybe my generation just doesn't have a taste for sailing? It does seem weird that they are watching tiny home shows and moving into Airstreams when you can buy a gorgeous boat for $50,000 and live on the water here. Sailboats are even very Instagram friendly! So yeah, I don't get it either. Maybe sailors are just weird.[/QUOTE]
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Old 16-11-2018, 17:36   #266
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

Apparently, chartering IS growing.

This fits well with the overall 'commodification of everything' that occurs in our globalised economy/society.

Holidays are now a 'product' that we are taught to 'consume'.

Most people don't get more than a cuppla weeks off per annum, so a quick flight to somewhere 'different' and a relaxing, stress-free time 'on vacation' ticks more boxes than a sometimes stressful two week sail up/down the coast.

Hence why fly-in/fly-out chartering is proving popular for those with an idea they 'might like to go sailing'.

We can only hope that, in so doing, some of these 'sailing consumers' find their 'inner deviant' and decide to do it some more, over a longer period, and cut the dock lines at some point in the future.

So we should be encouraging young people to go chartering, and just 'suck it and see'. Some will be 'bitten' by the sailing bug, some won't.

Personally, I'd be happy to see *less* people sailing the world's oceans.

But then, I'm an anti-social, curmudgeonly, cranky, grumpy sorta guy, way happier on my own in some lonely anchorage than rafted up drinking cocktails, with Jimmy Buffet on high rotation.

Sipping a small glass of spirits (rum or whisky) while watching the fish jump as the sun goes down.....it doesn't get much better than that.

YMMV.
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Old 16-11-2018, 18:40   #267
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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Apparently, chartering IS growing.

This fits well with the overall 'commodification of everything' that occurs in our globalised economy/society.

Holidays are now a 'product' that we are taught to 'consume'.

Most people don't get more than a cuppla weeks off per annum, so a quick flight to somewhere 'different' and a relaxing, stress-free time 'on vacation' ticks more boxes than a sometimes stressful two week sail up/down the coast.

Hence why fly-in/fly-out chartering is proving popular for those with an idea they 'might like to go sailing'....
The difference regarding those two weeks along the shore or fly-in/fly-out chartering are mostly a huge money difference.

Considering a new charter boat the price for two weeks on a prime place at high season is about 7000 euros for a 40ft boat. And most will do that with some friends so the price for a couple can easily be half or less than that.

If you consider an equally new boat, meaning less than 5 years, the price of the marina plus insurance plus maintenance plus boat devaluation can easily go over 20 000 euros a year.

That's the real reason that most sailors chose to do charter before they retire and can have more time on a sailboat.
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Old 16-11-2018, 18:45   #268
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

Well, it's 'one' reason....bit of a stretch to say it's the 'real' reason.

But, point taken. Cost is certainly a factor, especially for Millenials who are less 'job secure' than previous generations.
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Old 16-11-2018, 19:41   #269
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

Fewer the better I say, more everything for the rest of us!

Almost every other travel- or mobile/tiny living related thing is getting unsustainably crowded these days, so very happy to have a shrinking niche
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Old 16-11-2018, 19:51   #270
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Were I religious I would say amen..
But as I am not.. TFFT..
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