Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I understand your frustration (and enjoy your posts ) and I do see the boat prep costs as "counting", but just not needed to be included in the Accounts on an ongoing basis (the money has gone)............but there will be plenty of people who are preparing a boat over a period of several years whilst they are still earning but know that once they stop that $500 a month will be (have to be?) the target, whether from savings, Govt SS or private pension (or a bit of all) and wish to equip / put maintanence in the bank to cope with that drop in income.

Using the fridge example, a judgement has to be made between that $1000? (or $500? s/h) Engel, a cheaper model or none at all (and money spent on other things) - versus the cash going into the cruising kitty...........Obviously the decision is automatically made if the $1000 / $500 isn't available (or would be half of the kitty)......but when still earning likely will be an option to judge, even if also at the price of not having something else "Nice". Lots of similar choices (trade offs) to be made.

My judgement, your judgement and someone else's will all be different and equally capable of being right (or wrong ) as everyones current circumstances will differ, as well as future intentions / plans / dreams.

IMO the better prepared a boat (and Skipper) is the more likely the cruising budget is to be lower - as in the fundamentals being sound and at least a few long term time money savers - whether that be a fridge, rainwater collection, additional water storage, solar panels etc etc - even if likely not everything).......but boat doesn't have to look factory fresh (or even pretty!) inside or out, that's a real money (and time) eater to acheive.

FWIW (less than $500 ) if someone is intending an endless cruise (rather than a couple of years or so) then unless they are on Govt SS / Private Pension they will need to factor in work - otherwise would need a cruising kitty in the 100's of K to last a lifetime, which is probably (?!) unlikely. The question then becomes "how much do I work?" to get the $6k a year (or a bit more?!). For some that may be 6 months, for others 6 weeks.

I do understand that being poor / broke can be bl##dy hard work - a lot of peddling simply to stay still, and not always succesfully. I would take my hat off to anyone who is / can buy and then refit a boat on a $500 a month budget, including living expenses.......but I can't - I sold my hat on E-bay!

I have always said that easier to make $500 a month (above basic living expenses) than to live on that sum......the "secret" is work (hard and / or smart - either for self or for others)........but I'm probably thread drifting on that

Agreed. The only problem I see is, IMO, this can quickly turn into the classic trap of waiting too long for the boat to be 'finished' and Never actually going cruising. A lot of things can happen over the course of several years, and when you're struggling to begin with, the longer it takes, the more your chances of success diminish, as the chances of 'life' thwarting you're plans increases over time.

Go small go now.

[w1651]

The reason I keep trying to argue against not including the boat price is that I just can't wrap my head around anyone Choosing to live on $500 a month. Nobody wants to live/cruise on such a small budget. The people doing it are either A: fixed income folks who spent their life savings on a boat and no longer have the ability to save money (or atleast not easily), or B: people who already live on a small income and cannot afford to invest $25k in a boat to begin with.

Agreed ! Boat price and updates before leaving is money already spent and your not cruising. Unless your making payments on that boat but then you have missed the purpose of this thread entirely.
I just want to say that bottom paint is a maintenance issue so any cost savings there counts towards 500 a month. In fact if we could get an idea of the best paint to use in a particular location it would be even better. Along with product and maintenance items in general.
Best
place for rigging
for hardware
pull outs
sheets
varnish,and cleaners
etc...

[wildbillca]

Originally Posted by NorthPacific

I have a NZ world crusier mate who painted his hull with toxic stuff from Japan 4 years ago and after in the high growth areas of the BC coast he is still clean!! If anyon eis interested I can find out the name,

Yes find the name..Thanks.Wildbillca.

[MacG]

If you keep the major boatexpenses outside the 500 US$, and you calculate your monthly bill carefully, it should be feasible.

As long as you don' t put Dom Perignon or the like and Beluga caviar on your daily shopping list and help yourself out with a nice catch of fish - it might work for some time, depending on your creativity and uncontrollable circumstances prepared and created by the not so dependable governments.

I remember clearly that when I did my first live-aboard course right after my divorce that I went to the fisherman's dock and got plenty fuel from the suppliers for a little cash. 100 litres of gasoil at that time came for "een geeltje" (now US$ 10,--).
Eacht trip out to sea supplied me with plenty cod, mackerel, flounder and sometimes a sole or two.

Point is, if you are getting older, such way of living is difficult to continue. It is not the basic cost of living that counts but all the supplementary added together. Costs implied by the government if not the local government that forces you to be taxable via your permanent address. At least that is in the countries like France and Holland the case.
Very few communities in Holland let you have admission to their base-administration if you live aboard. Only a few will cope with you.

It is not so much the question "can I survive and live on a 500 USD monthly budget"? but "will the local government/state allow this"?

[Mike OReilly]

I guess I'm one of those oddballs who is choosing to live on $500/month.

I'm outfitting a new (old) boat for an undefined cruise. I have money now, but will have a lot less when we cut the lines. I am investing in my boat now so I can live for a long time -- hopefully in perpetuity. This means investing in solid systems, with the aim of keeping operating expenses low. Cruising on $500/month is key to me.

Looking at my own current lifestyle, and my limited experience, I'm confident it is possible. Many posts in this thread affirm this, and more importantly, are giving me new ideas for making my plan a reality. So keep the ideas coming .

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by wildbillca

Yes find the name..Thanks.Wildbillca.

The stuff is TBT - tributyltin / organotin which by international treaty is banned for use on small boats - large vessels and countries not part of the treaty still use it. And it works - but at a price to the environment.

- - It is not available for purchase by small recreational vessels in the USA and most major western countries. Some countries (I heard Australia or NZ) actually inquire of arriving boats what type bottom paint is on their boat.

- - It is available in the Caribbean basin countries and used by a lot of boats. In Trinidad, for instance, you can go down to the large commercial ship boatyards and for less than US$100 and your own 5 gal can, get the Chinese version from the workers (on the sly).

- - But for folks in the USA and other major western countries we have only copper, zinc oxide, and some other less toxic to the environment bottom paints. I heard that in the Pacific Northwest of the USA even copper paints will also be banned in the near future.

- - Another vexing problem with bottom paints and boats that do not move very often is the build up of "slime" on the bottom. Then sea grass, etc. grow on the slime and finally barnacles, etc. grow on top of all the stuff underneath that acts as an insulator from the effects of the anti-foulant. So periodic scrubbing and scraping becomes a fact of life regardless of the type of toxin in your paint. It is only a matter of how often you need to do it depending upon the biologically rich "soup" your boat is floating in.

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by NorthPacific

Well I hope I can cruise on about 1500 a month. I might as well be poor in the tropics than poor and cold in the north. We will equipe the modest ship the best we can and then be gone. Long figured out can never have enough gear or enough money so sod it. 18 months and unless things go horribly wrong I am gone!

I am poor and cold in the north, 50% of my income goes to permanent marina charges and other land ties with 30% of my income getting my boat ready to be able to shed that 50%....my income is under $1000/mo (just over as of Jan 1st). I don't plan on being poor on $1000/mo in the tropics.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

. . . I don't plan on being poor on $1000/mo in the tropics.

Whether you will be poor or not, IMHO, is a matter of your personal financial discipline. I have seen folks cruising on ten times that who complain of not having enough money - of course, they run up mega bar bills and hire technicians to fix every little thing on their boat that burps or busts.
- - Resisting buying that extra round of drinks with the local lusty lassie and instead enjoying the wonders of the islands and waters is not easy for some folks. The cruising lifestyle is full of opportunities to overspend which is why almost all discussions of how much it costs get answered with "as much as you have . . ."

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Whether you will be poor or not, IMHO, is a matter of your personal financial discipline. I have seen folks cruising on ten times that who complain of not having enough money - of course, they run up mega bar bills and hire technicians to fix every little thing on their boat that burps or busts.
- - Resisting buying that extra round of drinks with the local lusty lassie and instead enjoying the wonders of the islands and waters is not easy for some folks. The cruising lifestyle is full of opportunities to overspend which is why almost all discussions of how much it costs get answered with "as much as you have . . ."

My boat is incredibly low-tech/KISS principle (I almost feel guilty buying radar, but used at $125 I couldn't pass it up)and I like to follow the philosophy that "Every system on the boat will at sometime fail and you should know how to repair that yourself with only the tools and parts you have on board (that cannot be followed 100%, but it's a good philosophy). One of my pet pevs about this culture is that self-sufficiency, ingenuity, creatively and basic do it yourself....is being replaced by dependency on what marketing says we need with mindset that if it breaks either have someone fix it or get a new one.(fancier model). I am used to being either poor or extremely poor (or worse), I grew up the son of a farmer and and artist with a do it yourself attitude, something that translates very well to a boat.
I prefer going out to a restaurant to done rarely so it becomes a "special treat", I would rather anchor out than stay at a marina (I have been living in a marina for almost 5 years).....I am a simple down to earth person and have an economic lifestyle to go with it.

[s/v Breakaway]

In discussing boat refrigeration as a "luxury," there is an economic benefit to having a frig/freezer that no one has mentioned: fresh food storage(!) Say you are out cruising about and catch a fair-sized fish, or come by one in barter. You can't eat it all in one meal, and a frig allows you to stretch out your bounty over several days, and even weeks/months if you can pop a few filets in your freezer. If you are anchored/moored/docked where you provision from the market, buying a whole chicken or half a ham lets you get it at a better price, make several meals off the original menu, and a hearty pot of soup with the bones. A bit of left-over rice, vegies and scraps of meat make a great fried rice. "Left-overs" (or "plans-aheads") are key to eating economically and even minimizing use of your stove. For the vegetarians among us, many fresh vegies keep much longer when kept cool. IMHO

[w1651]

My boat is incredibly low-tech/KISS principle

This says it all.

I am going to need a new head so I looked into the costs of one.
Head150.00
Macerator pump 125.00
Sanitation line 8ft at 2.25 per ft = 18.00
Holding Tank 250.00
sea cocks 145.00
plus any other expenses. 100.00
total 806.00

or I could build a gravity tank system
Head 150.00
tank 100.00 found online
PVC tubing got already from someone throwing away
sanitation hose 1 ft 2.25 for where the pvc flexes and vibrates
seacocks still 145.00
other expenses 100.00
total now 497.25

Simplicity works and is so much cheaper then the other alternatives. 308.75 Saved just by letting gravity do the job for me and less smell because of less hose.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by w1651

This says it all.

I am going to need a new head so I looked into the costs of one.
Head150.00
Macerator pump 125.00
Sanitation line 8ft at 2.25 per ft = 18.00
Holding Tank 250.00
sea cocks 145.00
plus any other expenses. 100.00
total 806.00

or I could build a gravity tank system
Head 150.00
tank 100.00 found online
PVC tubing got already from someone throwing away
sanitation hose 1 ft 2.25 for where the pvc flexes and vibrates
seacocks still 145.00
other expenses 100.00
total now 497.25

Simplicity works and is so much cheaper then the other alternatives. 308.75 Saved just by letting gravity do the job for me and less smell because of less hose.

bucket from dollar store =$1,just saved you $496.25...............

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by s/v Breakaway

In discussing boat refrigeration as a "luxury," there is an economic benefit to having a frig/freezer that no one has mentioned: fresh food storage(!) Say you are out cruising about and catch a fair-sized fish, or come by one in barter. You can't eat it all in one meal, and a frig allows you to stretch out your bounty over several days, and even weeks/months if you can pop a few filets in your freezer. If you are anchored/moored/docked where you provision from the market, buying a whole chicken or half a ham lets you get it at a better price, make several meals off the original menu, and a hearty pot of soup with the bones. A bit of left-over rice, vegies and scraps of meat make a great fried rice. "Left-overs" (or "plans-aheads") are key to eating economically and even minimizing use of your stove. For the vegetarians among us, many fresh vegies keep much longer when kept cool. IMHO

+1

and IMO especially true when catering for one....even a extra day or two opens up options.

[Cormorant]

FWIW, waste tanks can be homebuilt using plywood lined with epoxy & glass (several layers). I made ours mostly because I had a particular hull shape to fill. I was worried about odor seepage, but so far it's been fine. Total cost? Maybe $40? I had most of the materials around anyway as scrap/surplus.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by atoll

bucket from dollar store =$1,just saved you $496.25...............

That's roughing it a bit. The deluxe version has a seat clipped on