Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

[w1651]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Today's exchange rates:

Guatemala Quetzal - 7.66 to $1
Honduran Lempira - 18.87 to $1

Guess you'd better stay in Honduras and out of the Rio Dulce where it will cost you more than twice as much.

Your right it is more expensive in Guatemala but Honduras is just across the river. We need a little dancing banana or something here. Still 3500 a month is nothing to laugh at.

[w1651]

Originally Posted by goprisko

Not too many go there......

Only a very few guides cover these two countries.....

Calder's Cruising Guide to the NW Caribbean
Stone & Hayes A Cruising Guide to the Caribbean
Wilenski's Guide to the Bay Islands of Honduras

A land of contrasts.... Lush triple canopy jungle at sea level.... Mountain
meadows in the interior above 5000 ft.....

The Rio Dulce now has marinas... though they are as yet unsophisticated...

The Rio Dulce is suitable for leaving the boat to return home to work etc..

The Rio Dulce gives you access to Tikal and the other Mayan Ruins...

The people are wonderful...

Yes, your money goes further... if you don't need to import parts and stuff..

No, the exchange rate does not truly reflect the differences in cost of living...

Don't forget the coast of Mexico, Cuba, Belize, Nicaragua, Costa Rica and... Panama.... Colombia is now cruisable... the people are very european... costs are modest...

INDY

Yes Columbia I hear has really changed as well as Ecuador. I here Costa Rica is getting a bit out of hand and Panama has more Americans there then here in the States. Still Argentina and Chile would be a great stop and the Andes are great to go on a weekend trip to see. Has anyone figured out my route yet?

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by w1651

Your right it is more expensive in Guatemala but Honduras is just across the river. We need a little dancing banana or something here. Still 3500 a month is nothing to laugh at.

I give up ...

[w1651]

It is essential that you create deadlines from your project plan. This you have done, excellent!

You are so right. I was talking to a father son team about a circumnavigation. The son was already very well versed in sailing and lost his 39 ft cruiser to the bottom of the ocean but was ready to go again with his dad.
But he kept saying he got this for safety and he wanted his dad to buy this so he felt better about leaving.
Now I understand that watching your 39 ft boat go to the bottom not to mention everything you own is a bit traumatic at the very least.
But I finally had to ask if the hull leaked. He said no it didn't leak and was very strong. So I looked him in the eye and said then your ready. Go get sailing. The gentleman next to me said the same thing, You have to set a date or you will never leave.
There is always a new gizmo or a better radio and a different safety thingy to add. If the hull keeps out water it's time to go sailing. Bon Voyage my Friends!

Naia is a steel Colvin 34 Gaff Ketch.

She has great classic lines.If my Ex had lines like that I would still be married...:-)

ChipG
You cannot offend me I own an Auto repair shop.

Got a small hard dingy Friday. Had to drive to Naples to get it. It needs a mast and sail but came with a set of oars and oar locks. It's 9ft 6inches and 4ft wide. Got to get used to rowing though. I haven't rowed a boat in a long time. Great work out! Oh Ya! only 200 USD. Cha Ching!

[Blue Crab]

HA hahahahahahahahahah ... can't believe I didn't get it earlier.

$500 equals $3500 at Guatalmalan exchange rates.

The 4400 miles long Andes chain would be a nice weekend side trip.

Chile and Argentina would be nice stops.

W1651 has been kiddling us all along.

And if he hasn't, here's a saving face way out.

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by Therapy

I think I understand most of it.

The "upkeep" of the company is why I think it may still be cost prohibitive as most people can't understand enough of it to remain in compliance.

A friend of mine dissolved a company with all the correct forms etc and three years later the IRS keeps telling him he needs to file. He is bounced from one IRS retard to another even after multiple forms refiled etc.

Me.........I couldn't handle it.

It will cost you about $100 to organize a corporation or LLC in Delaware, and
similar to do it in your state and about $300 in Namibia or RSA. Then you need a TIN from the IRS in the US and Inland Revenue in many other countries. This generally costs little or nothing. Goods and Sales Tax registration, or Sales Tax registration also costs little. You never windup the company wnen finished. You let it lapse after at least a year of inactivity.

Should you purchase $20,000 of outfitting items for the boat the 30% savings amounts to $6,000. If you build and spend $60,000, the discount widens to 36% and the savings widen to $ 21,000.

Some never get enough of boat building. I met a chap in Luderitz who was delivering his sixth aluminim custom catamaran to a customer in Florida. He rented space in an industrial park in Sydney for the time he fabricated the hull, then let it go. He chose a spot adjacent to a well equipped machine shop. He had a yard at Port Princessa, Cebu, Phillippines where he completed the boat. When the boat left Australia it was a shell with an engine and rigged. In that condition he sailed it to Port Princessa. Once he completed a boat he put it up for sale. He used local help to finish out his boats, and his own labor in AUZ to fab the hulls.

INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by w1651

All I was saying was at a ratio of 18 to 1 dollar the Rio Dulce is a excellent place to lay over for a while with lots to see. Not to mention at that rate your 500 a month goes a lot farther then it would in the Bahamas. And your still in a tropical paradise in the Caribbean.
Granted there would be a fee for the Bank to exchange the currency but still this is a cheap option because of the exchange rate. Just a way to make that 500 a month go farther.

In the later 90's I cruised Venezuela. At the time 5700 Bolivars = $1. They had just devalued the Bolivar. I remember things as incredibly cheap. In 99-2000 I was in Ecuador. The Sucre had just been devalued at 25,000/ USD. Diesel was $0.30/ gal. Medicine and food was incredibly cheap. A Panama hat cost a few dollars at the factory. I knew expats who were living in villas on $300/ month with servants.

However, in all these countries there are two markets one for foreigers who do not speak the language, the other for locals and savvy foreigners who do speak the language. The cheaper market is the one for locals. You need language skills to find it.

As I mentioned earlier, Guatemala and Honduras can be quite inexpensive for the cruiser who speaks spanish. Pickup a girl friend and let her do the shopping. Let her organize your tours. Learn Spanish from her.

Not to be missed Argentina, Chilie, RSA, Peru, Colombia, and Brazil. Brazil can be incredibly cheap or frightfully expensive. If you go where the locals go and do what they do, it is cheap. If you go where the foreign executives go, watch out!

INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by w1651

You are so right. I was talking to a father son team about a circumnavigation. The son was already very well versed in sailing and lost his 39 ft cruiser to the bottom of the ocean but was ready to go again with his dad.
But he kept saying he got this for safety and he wanted his dad to buy this so he felt better about leaving.
Now I understand that watching your 39 ft boat go to the bottom not to mention everything you own is a bit traumatic at the very least.
But I finally had to ask if the hull leaked. He said no it didn't leak and was very strong. So I looked him in the eye and said then your ready. Go get sailing. The gentleman next to me said the same thing, You have to set a date or you will never leave.
There is always a new gizmo or a better radio and a different safety thingy to add. If the hull keeps out water it's time to go sailing. Bon Voyage my Friends!



She has great classic lines.If my Ex had lines like that I would still be married...:-)

ChipG
You cannot offend me I own an Auto repair shop.

Got a small hard dingy Friday. Had to drive to Naples to get it. It needs a mast and sail but came with a set of oars and oar locks. It's 9ft 6inches and 4ft wide. Got to get used to rowing though. I haven't rowed a boat in a long time. Great work out! Oh Ya! only 200 USD. Cha Ching!

Great!

Now to your ponit regarding leaving.....

Back in the mid 90's as a member of the Lauderdale YC, I made friends with a chap. He was outfitting to go cruising. His boat was 45 ish, and filled with every imaginable accessory. He set himself the requirement that it all had to work before he could leave. I was based there off and on for years. During this time I cruised Florida Bay, The Keys, Dry Tortugas, Pine Island Sound, and most of the Bahamas. I also worked at my consulting practice to make it all happen.

Not once, in this period did my friend ever leave his slip. Because he simply couldn't get everything fixed.

In fitting out your boat, you must have fall backs for the loss of each and every piece of equipment. On Pegasus, that meant oil lamps, oil anchor lamp, and the ability to sail in and out of harbor to and from a dock, pickup a mooring or lay an anchor. This to make port should the engine fail. And fail it did, while crossing the Gulf Stream during a dead calm, and off the coast of Costa Rica, and off the coast of Belize. It was in Panama that I discovered the cause of these failures was a failing refrigeration compressor from SeaFrost. But to my point, in each and every case my ability to sail the boat, and my spares inventory kept me going. I never turned back.

You must be able to do the same.

INDY

[goprisko]

Let us not forget the Atkins.. their designs are still available through Atkin&Co.

Atkin & Co. - Boat Plans

Other notables:

Bob Perry

Bill Garden ( though most of his designs are complex and difficult to build)

Chuck Paine ( generally expensive, but good ideas )

Internationally:

Dick Zaal

Laurent Giles

I'm sure Boatman can add to this list...

INDY

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by goprisko

It will cost you about $100 to organize a corporation or LLC in Delaware, and
similar to do it in your state and about $300 in Namibia or RSA. Then you need a TIN from the IRS in the US and Inland Revenue in many other countries. This generally costs little or nothing. Goods and Sales Tax registration, or Sales Tax registration also costs little. You never windup the company wnen finished. You let it lapse after at least a year of inactivity.

If you just ignore it ("let it lapse") in Fl you will incurr fines and late charges.

Should you purchase $20,000 of outfitting items for the boat the 30% savings amounts to $6,000. If you build and spend $60,000, the discount widens to 36% and the savings widen to $ 21,000.

Somewhere along the line the taxes have to be paid. If it is your boat you can't buy things for it tax free - as someone explained earlier.

Some never get enough of boat building. I met a chap in Luderitz who was delivering his sixth aluminim custom catamaran to a customer in Florida. He rented space in an industrial park in Sydney for the time he fabricated the hull, then let it go. He chose a spot adjacent to a well equipped machine shop. He had a yard at Port Princessa, Cebu, Phillippines where he completed the boat. When the boat left Australia it was a shell with an engine and rigged. In that condition he sailed it to Port Princessa. Once he completed a boat he put it up for sale. He used local help to finish out his boats, and his own labor in AUZ to fab the hulls.

INDY

Good for chap in Luderitz. I have no idea what laws in those countries are.

What you are suggesting to do here though (though I am no accountant nor a tax expert) is, I think, illegal.

[wolfenzee]

The philosophy nessesary to be able to cruise on $500/month can apply to the entire boat. I have seen people look at the boat they could comfortably afford and then go for the bigger (all be it stripped down model) that they could barely afford. There are two ways in which your budget can make you loose sight of your dream. 1: spending more money than you can comfortably afford 2: cutting back so far it takes the pleasure out of everything. Basically find a comfort zone/center point. This is different for everyone, what you get out of your boat is yours....so try and figure out how to enjoy it the best you can.

[kenny chaos]

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

The philosophy nessesary to be able to cruise on $500/month can apply to the entire boat. I have seen people look at the boat they could comfortably afford and then go for the bigger (all be it stripped down model) that they could barely afford. There are two ways in which your budget can make you loose sight of your dream. 1: spending more money than you can comfortably afford 2: cutting back so far it takes the pleasure out of everything. Basically find a comfort zone/center point. This is different for everyone, what you get out of your boat is yours....so try and figure out how to enjoy it the best you can.

Kudos for an intelligent post.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Good for chap in Luderitz. I have no idea what laws in those countries are.

What you are suggesting to do here though (though I am no accountant nor a tax expert) is, I think, illegal.

Not a lawyer but a CPA (we aren't allowed to ethically say we are "tax experts"). I think your points or concerns are valid, although the risk factor is probably close to zero. Technically if you organized a company there is usually a "business purpose" stated within the charter. So, if you are claiming to be in "business" to get the trade discounts you are probably doing something illegal. Anytime you hold yourself out as something you're not you open yourself to potential liability. Pretty obvious I think.

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by Doodles

Not a lawyer but a CPA (we aren't allowed to ethically say we are "tax experts"). I think your points or concerns are valid, although the risk factor is probably close to zero. Technically if you organized a company there is usually a "business purpose" stated within the charter. So, if you are claiming to be in "business" to get the trade discounts you are probably doing something illegal. Anytime you hold yourself out as something you're not you open yourself to potential liability. Pretty obvious I think.

The last time I organized a company.... In RSA... we organized it "For any legal purpose"

Regardless, should an individual choose to organize a company and name it
"The Cruising Yacht Works" for example, and he then organizes the supply
of material and equipment with which he builds himself a cruising yacht, is he not operating his "company" for the purpose expoused in it's name?

Certainly. The Chap I met in Luderitz was doing nothing illegal whatever. He built custom catamarans which he then sold internationally. This is a legal business. He wasn't building them in Luderitz, he was building them in his home country of Australia, and finishing them at his offshore yard in the Phillippines.

Likewise, there is nothing illegal in a group of individuals organizing a company to build themselves each a cruising yacht. In fact, many famous yacht yards began in exactly that way, Kady Krogen and Tom Colvin come to mind.

This responsibility thing is going too far... The only liabilities involved are the following:
a) the company must pay it's vendors for items it orders
b) the company must pay the state any sales tax due on items it sells within that state's jurisdiction.(USA) OR must pay the goods and services tax / Value added Tax due (international)

Should you doubt this, please keep in mind the many times you were not asked to pay sales tax to vendors operating out of your state's jurisdiction. Those vendors did not pay the tax out of their own pockets, because they showed the sale as to another jurisdiction, hence not taxable.

Once the company has fulfilled it's purpose, given the vendors have been paid, and any taxes due have been paid, it can be allowed to lapse. There is no need to spend further funds winding it up formally.

INDY

[goprisko]

This week found several micro-budget cruising boats arriving in St. Thomas.

Liberte' a 21 ft plywood hard chine sloop arrived on an early leg of her circumnavigation. Skipper Dimitry and his two french girl friends spent just a day or two in the main anchorage before shifting westward. Liberte began her cruise in the North Sea, crossed Biscay, cruised Portugal and Spain, Madeira, the Canaries, and the West Indies.

Eden a 30 ft GRP yacht arrived from Florida with two american chaps aboard.

I'll post photos as they become available.


INDY